4 ms·

Do the YIMBY groups support dropping environmental impact studies for new buildings?

huevosabio 4y ago
For the most part, archaic and ad-hoc requirements yes. For example, you'll often see us complain about CEQA. In an ideal YIMBY world, the government would just give a clear checklist of what can be built (based on safety and environmental requirements) and as long as your project follows that, no one should be able to delay or oppose your building. What we have instead is arbitrary impact studies that anyone can throw to a developer and snooze the project indefinitely.
- wwweston 4y ago
  I'd imagine the tradeoff here is that impact studies allow for more variation, while generally clear checklists might need to include overgenerally strict items in order to prevent problems that might only be applicable in a few situations. I suppose the middle ground would be automatic green light for developers who can tick off every box on the overgeneral checklist + impact studies for people who want exceptions.
  - jjoonathan 4y ago
    How is that a middle ground? How does it address the "snooze forever" exploit?
    - wwweston 4y ago
      The overall endpoints for this discussion are "no oversight, laissez faire all the development!" and "no development, snooze forever." The endpoints suggested by the comment I responded to were "impact study" (with risks of indefinite timeline) and "greenlight checklist." I responded with this suggestion: greenlight checklist, with the option for impact study to justify exceptions to that checklist. Would-be builders get a choice between the two. The reasoning is that any greenlight checklist that's sufficient to do the job of custom impact studies will probably need to impose requirements that may not be practically necessary for every project. So, let people choose to check all the boxes (even some that might not be strictly necessary in order to avoid negative impacts) OR have a custom impact study done in order to receive specific exceptions. How is that not middle ground in between either set of endpoints?
- robocat 4y ago
  The NZ government (bipartisan decision) has recently made all city councils allow densification by default. “The so-called Medium Density Residential Standard will require the country’s most populous cities to permit up to three stories and three dwellings on all existing residential parcels of land. The policy would allow a parcel with a detached single-family dwelling to be redeveloped into row houses or a small apartment block.”[3]. > as long as your project follows [the planning and building codes], no one should be able to delay or oppose your building. That is how the regulations are designed in Christchurch, New Zealand: automatic consent if you stick within the codes. You require consent if you need to do something outside of the default rules, and NIMBYs can affect that consent process, so the default rules really really matter. Housing prices were fairly insane levels[1] but are now reducing[2] (although interest rates are also affecting that). [1] March 22: Auckland is eighth least affordable city for housing in new rankings https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/real-estate/128027220/auckland-is-eighth-least-affordable-city-for-housing-in-new-rankings https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/real-estate/1280272... [2] Sept 22: NZ tumbles down international house price growth ranks https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/real-estate/129844437/nz-tumbles-down-international-house-price-growth-ranks https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/real-estate/1298444... [3] New Zealand’s bipartisan housing reforms offer a model to other countries https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2022/01/24/new-zealands-bipartisan-housing-reforms-offer-a-model-to-other-countries/ https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2022/01/24/new-zea...
- chongli 4y ago
  clear checklist of what can be built (based on safety and environmental requirements) Such a thing doesn’t and cannot exist. One of the (many) purposes of environmental impact studies is to stop (for example) a new golf course from destroying a bunch of wetlands habitat for endangered species. If the species can only be found in one small area then there’s no rubber-stamp process that will protect it. These projects need to be studied in detail, on a case by case basis, to determine what impact they’ll have on the environment. There are whole fields of engineering that deal with this subject.
  - Aunche 4y ago
    I doubt you're going to find any meaningful insights from a environmental impact study of a standardized 5-over-1 built in a suburb.
  - kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
    SF isn't pristine nature. It's entirely a man made construct.
  - thebradbain 4y ago
    Ok, but that's not what OP is advocating for. At the very least there should be streamlined CEQA processes applicable for certain developments in certain areas. IE -- it is not at all crazy for a 4/8/10-plex townhome-style development to be built on a piece of land in San Francisco that currently contains a single family home, or an undeveloped paved parking lot. Individual parcels of land that are especially exceptional within such areas can be marked as such (think historical landmark designations, though that process is a whole separate can of worms). Yet currently San Francisco has some of the kafka-esque building requirements for the most common types of buildings AND 4 private golf courses on what would most certainly be classified as protected wetlands today. So clearly today's CEQA isn't even working by your own scenario.
  - ROTMetro 4y ago
    The problem is that this consideration has been weaponized to the point of abuse so bad that some people cynically no longer see deferring to these considerations as something legitimate. In addition, in the crazy red state I now live, people are slowly filling anything that could be considered wetlands on their property to proactively protect their property rights. So this consideration is now RESPONSIBLE for active wetland destruction and a hostile attitude by many towards wetlands on their property.
enragedcacti 4y ago
> Policies in this category include “by right” or “as of right” permitting, permit streamlining, California’s SB 35, and reform of environmental review processes. https://yimbyaction.org/2021/solutions/ https://yimbyaction.org/2021/solutions/
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

For the most part, archaic and ad-hoc requirements yes. For example, you'll often see us complain about CEQA. In an ideal YIMBY world, the government would just give a clear checklist of what can be built (based on safety and environmental requirements) and as long as your project follows that, no one should be able to delay or oppose your building. What we have instead is arbitrary impact studies that anyone can throw to a developer and snooze the project indefinitely.

wwweston 4y ago
I'd imagine the tradeoff here is that impact studies allow for more variation, while generally clear checklists might need to include overgenerally strict items in order to prevent problems that might only be applicable in a few situations. I suppose the middle ground would be automatic green light for developers who can tick off every box on the overgeneral checklist + impact studies for people who want exceptions.
- jjoonathan 4y ago
  How is that a middle ground? How does it address the "snooze forever" exploit?
  - wwweston 4y ago
    The overall endpoints for this discussion are "no oversight, laissez faire all the development!" and "no development, snooze forever." The endpoints suggested by the comment I responded to were "impact study" (with risks of indefinite timeline) and "greenlight checklist." I responded with this suggestion: greenlight checklist, with the option for impact study to justify exceptions to that checklist. Would-be builders get a choice between the two. The reasoning is that any greenlight checklist that's sufficient to do the job of custom impact studies will probably need to impose requirements that may not be practically necessary for every project. So, let people choose to check all the boxes (even some that might not be strictly necessary in order to avoid negative impacts) OR have a custom impact study done in order to receive specific exceptions. How is that not middle ground in between either set of endpoints?
robocat 4y ago
The NZ government (bipartisan decision) has recently made all city councils allow densification by default. “The so-called Medium Density Residential Standard will require the country’s most populous cities to permit up to three stories and three dwellings on all existing residential parcels of land. The policy would allow a parcel with a detached single-family dwelling to be redeveloped into row houses or a small apartment block.”[3]. > as long as your project follows [the planning and building codes], no one should be able to delay or oppose your building. That is how the regulations are designed in Christchurch, New Zealand: automatic consent if you stick within the codes. You require consent if you need to do something outside of the default rules, and NIMBYs can affect that consent process, so the default rules really really matter. Housing prices were fairly insane levels[1] but are now reducing[2] (although interest rates are also affecting that). [1] March 22: Auckland is eighth least affordable city for housing in new rankings https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/real-estate/128027220/auckland-is-eighth-least-affordable-city-for-housing-in-new-rankings https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/real-estate/1280272... [2] Sept 22: NZ tumbles down international house price growth ranks https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/real-estate/129844437/nz-tumbles-down-international-house-price-growth-ranks https://www.stuff.co.nz/life-style/homed/real-estate/1298444... [3] New Zealand’s bipartisan housing reforms offer a model to other countries https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2022/01/24/new-zealands-bipartisan-housing-reforms-offer-a-model-to-other-countries/ https://www.brookings.edu/blog/the-avenue/2022/01/24/new-zea...
chongli 4y ago
clear checklist of what can be built (based on safety and environmental requirements) Such a thing doesn’t and cannot exist. One of the (many) purposes of environmental impact studies is to stop (for example) a new golf course from destroying a bunch of wetlands habitat for endangered species. If the species can only be found in one small area then there’s no rubber-stamp process that will protect it. These projects need to be studied in detail, on a case by case basis, to determine what impact they’ll have on the environment. There are whole fields of engineering that deal with this subject.
- Aunche 4y ago
  I doubt you're going to find any meaningful insights from a environmental impact study of a standardized 5-over-1 built in a suburb.
- kevin_thibedeau 4y ago
  SF isn't pristine nature. It's entirely a man made construct.
- thebradbain 4y ago
  Ok, but that's not what OP is advocating for. At the very least there should be streamlined CEQA processes applicable for certain developments in certain areas. IE -- it is not at all crazy for a 4/8/10-plex townhome-style development to be built on a piece of land in San Francisco that currently contains a single family home, or an undeveloped paved parking lot. Individual parcels of land that are especially exceptional within such areas can be marked as such (think historical landmark designations, though that process is a whole separate can of worms). Yet currently San Francisco has some of the kafka-esque building requirements for the most common types of buildings AND 4 private golf courses on what would most certainly be classified as protected wetlands today. So clearly today's CEQA isn't even working by your own scenario.
- ROTMetro 4y ago
  The problem is that this consideration has been weaponized to the point of abuse so bad that some people cynically no longer see deferring to these considerations as something legitimate. In addition, in the crazy red state I now live, people are slowly filling anything that could be considered wetlands on their property to proactively protect their property rights. So this consideration is now RESPONSIBLE for active wetland destruction and a hostile attitude by many towards wetlands on their property.

enragedcacti 4y ago

> Policies in this category include “by right” or “as of right” permitting, permit streamlining, California’s SB 35, and reform of environmental review processes. https://yimbyaction.org/2021/solutions/ https://yimbyaction.org/2021/solutions/

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]