5 ms·

Yes, I'm talking about 2015. The first two Playstation only MoH games were not exactly failures, but they were little more than Goldeneye clones with WW2 theme

Yes, I'm talking about 2015. The first two Playstation only MoH games were not exactly failures, but they were little more than Goldeneye clones with WW2 themes. The first PC game is really the start of what we think of as the Medal of Honor franchise proper. The team that bailed founded Infinity Ward, which was the origin of Call of Duty, or at least the first like 8 games in the franchise. So yes, my story does in fact check out. Which is because I lived it. My friend tried to get me to join the team for 2 years because he knew they were onto something, but I'd fled a childhood in Kansas to build a life on the west coast and wasn't looking to move back to Tulsa of all places. That proved to be a bad career decision but I'm ok with it as a life decision. Can you have some self awareness of how annoying it is for you to adopt this skeptical fact checker tone when you have so little familiarity with the events and people involved you don't even really understand what to google for and which wikipedia articles to read? Edit: I'm annoyed because if you tell someone their story doesn't check out, calling me a lair in this case as the story is direct personal experience, you probably need more of a basis for that claim than googling a wikipedia article about a story you'd never heard of 5 minutes ago.

HFguy 4y ago
"...calling me a lair..." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DZKwCVKneg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DZKwCVKneg Sorry, found the typo funny. Not trying to antagonize anyone this morning.
andrewmcwatters 4y ago
HN is the only place on the web that I know of where someone will tell you--someone who has experience in X, Y or Z--that you are wrong, or "sealion" you, or better yet, attempt to correct you with their armchair experience. Then, you'll be reprimanded for pointing it out, asking you to "not do that here." I wish moderation would curtail this obnoxious behavior, because I see HN as a place where experts can detail their experience, and over the years I see more and more amateur butt in or sealioning behavior take place, and people I know have left over it.
throwaway24424 4y ago
You didn't really provide that much detail, how are you expecting someone to understand what to Google? If your suggestion is for people to not question, or be curious at all then I think you're in the wrong place...?
- derangedHorse 4y ago
  I don't think they were annoyed by the follow-up, they were annoyed by being softly accused of an inaccurate story and not being given the benefit of the doubt. Removing the "I don't think the story adds up." and changing the period of "This doesn't sound like 'a small game studio in Oklahoma'." to a question mark would've have helped make it less accusatory. In my opinion the original story was a bit misleading though, reading as if the small game company's novel IP was the original Medal of Honor, so I do think the follow-up was warranted: "They took that momentum and started on their own novel IP as a quake licensee. They made a ahem mildly successful game named Medal of Honor." I also think the response to the questioning was a lot more hostile than it needed to be but ultimately that there was rudeness on both sides
ClassyJacket 4y ago
They asked very politely for you to clarify some details after they tried themselves but were unable to verify it by looking it up. Your hostility is unwarranted and rude. People are not psychic, it was quite reasonable for them to ask.
- arinlen 4y ago
  > They asked very politely for you to clarify some details after they tried themselves but were unable to verify it by looking it up. Not really. GP straight up accused the OP of lying, under a thick but transparent layer of euphemisms. Coming at someone out of nowhere with accusations that "your story doesn't add up", specially after failing to do their homework, is the opposite of politeness.
- rkangel 4y ago
  I think there's hostility on both sides here. "Could you clarify a few things?" is one thing, but "I don't think the story adds up" is a direct accusation of lying.
  - jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
    Maybe it's an unfair assumption on my part, but the post starts out exactly in the format of deliberately written /r/IAmVerySmart satires. But it's not. Just because you're using polite vocabulary does not mean bare toothed sentiment doesn't read through.
  - rvanlaar 4y ago
    Thanks for the responses, much appreciated.
  - pmontra 4y ago
    The tragedy of the written word between people that don't know each other. One could say "Could you clarify a few things?" in anger or "I don't think the story adds up" smiling and with a friendly tone. In writing the intention of the writer is in the mind of the reader.
d1sxeyes 4y ago
You may have found it annoying, but I think it's good to have a healthy level of skepticism on the internet about stories whose source is 'a friend of mine'. I agree OP could have been a bit less confrontational, but... > The first PC game is really the start of what we think of as the Medal of Honor franchise proper. > They took that momentum and started on their own novel IP [...] They couldn't take the IP with them That may be your opinion, it certainly isn't mine, having played both the Playstation games and none of the PC games. I very clearly remember the splash screen for Dreamworks on starting up the first Medal of Honor game. I'm still not sure how the third game in a franchise could be considered 'novel IP', especially as it seems they were approached by Dreamworks[1], so it's not surprising they couldn't take it anywhere else. Without the explanation above, I would have dismissed your comment as nonsense out of hand without bothering to engage. However, OP questioned, you clarified, and I learned something. Choosing your own definition of when the franchise started made it very difficult to accept your comment as it stood initially though. Perhaps you could also have some self-awareness of how often people post about 'my friend who told me this anecdote about this big thing' with red flags in their story, and how much it's important not to believe everything you read? 1: Wikipedia mentions this on the 2015 page with a reference to https://www.tulsapeople.com/tulsa-people/july-2009/powering-up-with-tornado-studios/ https://www.tulsapeople.com/tulsa-people/july-2009/powering-..., but unfortunately I'm not able to open that link to verify its contents. https://venturebeat.com/games/the-making-and-unmaking-of-infinity-ward/ https://venturebeat.com/games/the-making-and-unmaking-of-inf... seems to indicate as well that Dreamworks approached 2015, https://www.ign.com/articles/2009/11/06/ign-presents-the-history-of-call-of-duty https://www.ign.com/articles/2009/11/06/ign-presents-the-his... suggests EA 'employed' 2015 which sounds about right (Dreamworks Interactive was sold to EA)
- jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
  The PC games done by 2015 nee Infinity Ward were basically them getting to do whatever they wanted, vs being handed a prepared design bible as was common for 2nd party dev in that era. That team absolutely deserves credit for what people commonly call MoH. Great you loved the PSX games. You're rather alone in considering them the same thing in all but brand.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
bigie35 4y ago
Lately HN feels more like a bunch of lawyers quibbling over semantics... It gets really old, really fast. Whatever happened to assume positive intent?
- arinlen 4y ago
  > Lately HN feels more like a bunch of lawyers quibbling over semantics... There is no semantics challenge in a random coming at someone out of the blue with accusations of being a liar. The only lawyering involved is determining if it would represent libel or slander.
- prepend 4y ago
  > Whatever happened to assume positive intent? I think positive intent is different from truth. To make good decisions, I need to drill down to the truth of the situation. People can be super honest and be wrong or conflate ideas. So for me, I work on being politely skeptical and assume it’s false until substantiated.
- yamtaddle 4y ago
  Intense levels of plausibly-deniable passive aggression, and absolutely god-awful intent being treated as something better to the detriment of discourse thanks to the "assume positive intent" rule, are what I consider some of the core defining features of the HN experience. I dunno if it does any good, but these days when I smell ill intent beneath the surface of a "just asking questions" post I just flag the bastards rather than trying to help them by answering. Responding is simply feeding trolls, and HN threads are full of that sort of thing. Argumentative jerks who are just trying to argue, while staying just civil enough that they don't get slapped down (not too quickly, anyway). My kingdom for sigs and blocklists.
  - ido 4y ago
    The problem is that your figurative sense of smell may not be correct. It really is quite easy to mistake an honest question or assertion as passive aggression or sarcasm in text form.
meroes 4y ago
So they didn’t start MOH, thanks for clarifying and I now can understand your post better.

HFguy 4y ago

"...calling me a lair..." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DZKwCVKneg https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DZKwCVKneg Sorry, found the typo funny. Not trying to antagonize anyone this morning.

andrewmcwatters 4y ago

HN is the only place on the web that I know of where someone will tell you--someone who has experience in X, Y or Z--that you are wrong, or "sealion" you, or better yet, attempt to correct you with their armchair experience. Then, you'll be reprimanded for pointing it out, asking you to "not do that here." I wish moderation would curtail this obnoxious behavior, because I see HN as a place where experts can detail their experience, and over the years I see more and more amateur butt in or sealioning behavior take place, and people I know have left over it.

throwaway24424 4y ago

You didn't really provide that much detail, how are you expecting someone to understand what to Google? If your suggestion is for people to not question, or be curious at all then I think you're in the wrong place...?

derangedHorse 4y ago
I don't think they were annoyed by the follow-up, they were annoyed by being softly accused of an inaccurate story and not being given the benefit of the doubt. Removing the "I don't think the story adds up." and changing the period of "This doesn't sound like 'a small game studio in Oklahoma'." to a question mark would've have helped make it less accusatory. In my opinion the original story was a bit misleading though, reading as if the small game company's novel IP was the original Medal of Honor, so I do think the follow-up was warranted: "They took that momentum and started on their own novel IP as a quake licensee. They made a ahem mildly successful game named Medal of Honor." I also think the response to the questioning was a lot more hostile than it needed to be but ultimately that there was rudeness on both sides

ClassyJacket 4y ago

They asked very politely for you to clarify some details after they tried themselves but were unable to verify it by looking it up. Your hostility is unwarranted and rude. People are not psychic, it was quite reasonable for them to ask.

arinlen 4y ago
> They asked very politely for you to clarify some details after they tried themselves but were unable to verify it by looking it up. Not really. GP straight up accused the OP of lying, under a thick but transparent layer of euphemisms. Coming at someone out of nowhere with accusations that "your story doesn't add up", specially after failing to do their homework, is the opposite of politeness.
rkangel 4y ago
I think there's hostility on both sides here. "Could you clarify a few things?" is one thing, but "I don't think the story adds up" is a direct accusation of lying.
- jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
  Maybe it's an unfair assumption on my part, but the post starts out exactly in the format of deliberately written /r/IAmVerySmart satires. But it's not. Just because you're using polite vocabulary does not mean bare toothed sentiment doesn't read through.
- rvanlaar 4y ago
  Thanks for the responses, much appreciated.
- pmontra 4y ago
  The tragedy of the written word between people that don't know each other. One could say "Could you clarify a few things?" in anger or "I don't think the story adds up" smiling and with a friendly tone. In writing the intention of the writer is in the mind of the reader.

d1sxeyes 4y ago

You may have found it annoying, but I think it's good to have a healthy level of skepticism on the internet about stories whose source is 'a friend of mine'. I agree OP could have been a bit less confrontational, but... > The first PC game is really the start of what we think of as the Medal of Honor franchise proper. > They took that momentum and started on their own novel IP [...] They couldn't take the IP with them That may be your opinion, it certainly isn't mine, having played both the Playstation games and none of the PC games. I very clearly remember the splash screen for Dreamworks on starting up the first Medal of Honor game. I'm still not sure how the third game in a franchise could be considered 'novel IP', especially as it seems they were approached by Dreamworks[1], so it's not surprising they couldn't take it anywhere else. Without the explanation above, I would have dismissed your comment as nonsense out of hand without bothering to engage. However, OP questioned, you clarified, and I learned something. Choosing your own definition of when the franchise started made it very difficult to accept your comment as it stood initially though. Perhaps you could also have some self-awareness of how often people post about 'my friend who told me this anecdote about this big thing' with red flags in their story, and how much it's important not to believe everything you read? 1: Wikipedia mentions this on the 2015 page with a reference to https://www.tulsapeople.com/tulsa-people/july-2009/powering-up-with-tornado-studios/ https://www.tulsapeople.com/tulsa-people/july-2009/powering-..., but unfortunately I'm not able to open that link to verify its contents. https://venturebeat.com/games/the-making-and-unmaking-of-infinity-ward/ https://venturebeat.com/games/the-making-and-unmaking-of-inf... seems to indicate as well that Dreamworks approached 2015, https://www.ign.com/articles/2009/11/06/ign-presents-the-history-of-call-of-duty https://www.ign.com/articles/2009/11/06/ign-presents-the-his... suggests EA 'employed' 2015 which sounds about right (Dreamworks Interactive was sold to EA)

jasonwatkinspdx 4y ago
The PC games done by 2015 nee Infinity Ward were basically them getting to do whatever they wanted, vs being handed a prepared design bible as was common for 2nd party dev in that era. That team absolutely deserves credit for what people commonly call MoH. Great you loved the PSX games. You're rather alone in considering them the same thing in all but brand.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

bigie35 4y ago

Lately HN feels more like a bunch of lawyers quibbling over semantics... It gets really old, really fast. Whatever happened to assume positive intent?

arinlen 4y ago
> Lately HN feels more like a bunch of lawyers quibbling over semantics... There is no semantics challenge in a random coming at someone out of the blue with accusations of being a liar. The only lawyering involved is determining if it would represent libel or slander.
prepend 4y ago
> Whatever happened to assume positive intent? I think positive intent is different from truth. To make good decisions, I need to drill down to the truth of the situation. People can be super honest and be wrong or conflate ideas. So for me, I work on being politely skeptical and assume it’s false until substantiated.
yamtaddle 4y ago
Intense levels of plausibly-deniable passive aggression, and absolutely god-awful intent being treated as something better to the detriment of discourse thanks to the "assume positive intent" rule, are what I consider some of the core defining features of the HN experience. I dunno if it does any good, but these days when I smell ill intent beneath the surface of a "just asking questions" post I just flag the bastards rather than trying to help them by answering. Responding is simply feeding trolls, and HN threads are full of that sort of thing. Argumentative jerks who are just trying to argue, while staying just civil enough that they don't get slapped down (not too quickly, anyway). My kingdom for sigs and blocklists.
- ido 4y ago
  The problem is that your figurative sense of smell may not be correct. It really is quite easy to mistake an honest question or assertion as passive aggression or sarcasm in text form.

meroes 4y ago

So they didn’t start MOH, thanks for clarifying and I now can understand your post better.