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This really begs the question on whether there was some outside influence on german energy decisions. It's not a given that Russia hasn't been using non-standa

by lumost 4y ago

This really begs the question on whether there was some outside influence on german energy decisions. It's not a given that Russia hasn't been using non-standard negotiation methods for making Germany more dependent on Russian gas by drumming up fear on everything else.

jcfrei 4y ago
After his term as German chancellor was up (1998-2005), Gerhard Schröder became chairman of several gas companies that were (majority) owned by the Russian state (Nord Stream AG, Rosneft, Gazprom). There was nothing covert about the Kremlin courting Germany with its cheap gas - it was plain to see.
- dnh44 4y ago
  Cheap energy is great for Germany's energy intensive heavy industries, and strategically important. Russia and Germany getting cozy and growing together economically couldn't have made the US or the UK very comfortable and I believe this was at least a part of the US motivation to pull Ukraine from Russia's orbit. I mean it makes a lot more sense to me than the US actually giving a shit about Ukrainians and their freedom. It's very well played on the part of the US. After all the point of NATO was to "keep the Americans in, the Russians out, and the Germans down" https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-agenda-idUSKBN0FB06B20140706 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-agenda-idUSKBN0FB06B20...
  - theroofian 4y ago
    Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. This is a reasonable take, especially following the way the US reacts to any prospects of getting the Nord Stream 2 started. “US pulling X from Y’s orbit” has been happening around the world since at least the 70s, nothing surprising here.
    - teh_klev 4y ago
      > “US pulling X from Y’s orbit” has been happening around the world since at least the 70s It's been going on for far longer than that and pretty much since the late 1940's.
dependsontheq 4y ago
There actually seems to be an investigation into leadership of the energy department of the relevant department. Nothing is proven but some things raised suspicions.
Corazoor 4y ago
No need to assume, it's publicly documented history: The 1969-1974 German goverment of Willy Brandt pursued a new foreign policy towards the Soviet Union, "Neue Ostpolitik". Part of that strategy was to build a system of mutual economic dependency, so that neither the german nor the soviet side would have any interest in going to war against each other. And while Brandt was eventually replaced by the more conservative (but still social democrat) Helmut Schmidt, the general strategy of mutual economic dependency was upheld, and contributed to the eventual reunion of both Germanies. In general, back then this strategy worked so well, that even the chancelors from the conservative CDU didn't feel compelled to change it. Even Merkel, while far more cool and restrained towards russia than her predecessor, did not really change much in that regard. Kinda expected from a conservative though...

by lumost 4y ago

jcfrei 4y ago

After his term as German chancellor was up (1998-2005), Gerhard Schröder became chairman of several gas companies that were (majority) owned by the Russian state (Nord Stream AG, Rosneft, Gazprom). There was nothing covert about the Kremlin courting Germany with its cheap gas - it was plain to see.

dnh44 4y ago
Cheap energy is great for Germany's energy intensive heavy industries, and strategically important. Russia and Germany getting cozy and growing together economically couldn't have made the US or the UK very comfortable and I believe this was at least a part of the US motivation to pull Ukraine from Russia's orbit. I mean it makes a lot more sense to me than the US actually giving a shit about Ukrainians and their freedom. It's very well played on the part of the US. After all the point of NATO was to "keep the Americans in, the Russians out, and the Germans down" https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-agenda-idUSKBN0FB06B20140706 https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-agenda-idUSKBN0FB06B20...
- theroofian 4y ago
  Not sure why you’re getting downvoted. This is a reasonable take, especially following the way the US reacts to any prospects of getting the Nord Stream 2 started. “US pulling X from Y’s orbit” has been happening around the world since at least the 70s, nothing surprising here.
  - teh_klev 4y ago
    > “US pulling X from Y’s orbit” has been happening around the world since at least the 70s It's been going on for far longer than that and pretty much since the late 1940's.

dependsontheq 4y ago

There actually seems to be an investigation into leadership of the energy department of the relevant department. Nothing is proven but some things raised suspicions.

Corazoor 4y ago

No need to assume, it's publicly documented history: The 1969-1974 German goverment of Willy Brandt pursued a new foreign policy towards the Soviet Union, "Neue Ostpolitik". Part of that strategy was to build a system of mutual economic dependency, so that neither the german nor the soviet side would have any interest in going to war against each other. And while Brandt was eventually replaced by the more conservative (but still social democrat) Helmut Schmidt, the general strategy of mutual economic dependency was upheld, and contributed to the eventual reunion of both Germanies. In general, back then this strategy worked so well, that even the chancelors from the conservative CDU didn't feel compelled to change it. Even Merkel, while far more cool and restrained towards russia than her predecessor, did not really change much in that regard. Kinda expected from a conservative though...