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Crazy idea: FB should stop trying to lure people back from Tiktok with weird features and just lean in to its one remaining strength, which is that among social

Crazy idea: FB should stop trying to lure people back from Tiktok with weird features and just lean in to its one remaining strength, which is that among social media sites, it's the most generic and boring and ubiquitous. Being the default place for non-influencers to do quotidian stuff like hearing about school closings, joining the PTA or HOA, coordinating family gatherings, see your nephew's school photos, etc would be a pretty good little business. And they already have all of that functionality built, so they could run significantly leaner, and hence not have to drive their remaining users away with excessive ads. This seems like a good idea to me. But I also think it's about as likely to happen as President Stallman.

tpoacher 4y ago
That's GNU/President Stallman
ok123456 4y ago
Marketplace is the only reason a lot of people still use the site. This is since especially true for people looking for beater cars since Craigslist started charging $5 to post ads for cars. If Apple or someone else with an ax to grind with Facebook really wanted to bust Meta's kneecaps, they could off to subsidize this charge. Maybe also help them out with fraud and spam detection, since that's where most of the overhead on that section is going to come from.
- achenatx 4y ago
  I use it for groups. Many of our local clubs do great on facebook
  - addicted 4y ago
    The problem is that FB has changed groups as well. Groups seem to be redesigned to become more like open billboards than private enclaves with a limited membership. They haven’t gone all the way there, so the groups are still useful, but I’m worried that’s the direction they’re taking.
    - ok123456 4y ago
      Private groups mean less people and less engagement. So they'll try to trick you into opening.
- elcomet 4y ago
  That might be the reason for you, but there are many other reasons why people still use the site. For example, coordinating events with friends, discover local events, discussing on messenger, sharing photos, discussing in groups...
  - ok123456 4y ago
    The people using Marketplace are the people who wouldn't be using the site otherwise, and who are there for the express purpose of doing commerce. No one over 40 would be caught dead of facebook otherwise.
    - max51 4y ago
      >No one over 40 would be caught dead of facebook otherwise. Until their HOA or their sports club start using Facebook as their official platform for announcements and communication. I know there are other free platform that could fill the same role, but you will never find one where literally more than half the adult population already has an account and is familiar with the interface/features. Lots of groups use it because it's the path of least resistance.
      - ok123456 4y ago
        Enough people don't have or won't use facebook in 2022. Email is still the lowest common denominator.
        deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
        thehappypm 4y ago
        Source? This sounds like conjecture at its finest.
        tenebrisalietum 4y ago
        Can you sign up with Facebook without an email? I know it asks for your phone number but not sure if it still requires an email.
- acdha 4y ago
  That seems to be getting the same Zuckerberg death-spiral: Facebook has lots of users so it’s tempting but everyone I know who’s tried it was deluged with blatant scam attempts & Google MFA phishing attacks. Skimping on abuse just seems to be the corporate default.
- legitster 4y ago
  FB is also actively making Marketplace worse. They keep relegating their local pickup products and trying to turn it into a generic online marketplace.
  - drstewart 4y ago
    It's annoying, but welcome. As soon as Marketplace dies, I can delete FB forever
- almostkorean 4y ago
  > Marketplace is the only reason a lot of people still use the site. Do you have any data to back this claim?
  - ok123456 4y ago
    Yes. I know several people who only have Facebook accounts because they need it to buy and sell things on Marketplace.
mrweasel 4y ago
"Won't someone please think of the shareholders"... It seems like the obvious idea, it is exactly their strengths and their user base is old enough for those features to be of value. The thing is that would mean making Facebook less valuable, causing the current shareholders to lose money. It's going to be hard to get someone to accept a business plan that will cost them money, even if the alternative is worse long term. Perhaps because you're betting that you can of load our shares before the whole thing goes belly up (whenever that may be). I think your idea makes a lot of sense, it would be cheaper to run, there's less fancy features to develop, might be cheaper to run andless use for moderation. The thing I don't understand well enough is the ads: Can you charge more, because your users are older and buy different things, or do teens and younger people have more disposable income?
- nerdponx 4y ago
  > The thing is that would mean making Facebook less valuable Would it? Is the stock market completely irrational and incapable of seeing the long-term value here? Or does the market know something we don't?
- vineyardmike 4y ago
  Zuck owns a majority of the shares and there may not be anyone to please besides him. Also, cutting 50% of the expensive tech jobs sounds profitable to me. The issue is that Zuck is no Craig Newmark. Craig is a nice guy, a philanthropist, and generally a good figure to look up to become one day. > The thing I don't understand well enough is the ads: Can you charge more, because your users are older and buy different things, or do teens and younger people have more disposable income? The ads run at auction, FB doesn't explicitly charge a set price for the inventory. Facebook for years has been running with an inflationary inventory (first fb, then fb newsfeed+fb, then fb+nf+insta, then fb+nf+insta+ insta stories, etc). Meaning that they have more ad slots, and more impressions, and can create a lower (at least in short term) the price per ad, while increasing overall revenue. Remember, Facebook is really good at getting an ad to the right person, so Facebook ad inventory has been valuable. If Facebook stops adding new features, then the inventory becomes static, and the price per ad will rise (again, valuable), and price out their ad customers. (I think the idea is terrible but more feasible than people give credit for).
nradov 4y ago
That would be the low risk strategy. Just run it as a cash cow value business and extract as much profit as possible until it dies. However, Mark Zuckerberg has chosen to bet the company on AR/VR and is investing $10B into that area. If they get it wrong then he'll look like an idiot. If they get it right by building the next major platform for humans to communicate then he'll look like a visionary genius. We won't know which for at least 10 years.
- stonogo 4y ago
  Why do we need to wait ten years? He's building Second Life with a higher-resolution mesh. Is that visionary?
- yojo 4y ago
  People gave Google a ton of crap for buying YouTube for 1.6 billion (~16% of annual revenue at the time). That $10B FB spent is more like 8.5% of their revenue. I’m skeptical of the metaverse, but I was also pretty skeptical of user-generated video. And given their current ad take, $10B is not a crazy bet.
  - ok123456 4y ago
    Everyone wanted to watch and share video clips on their computer directly on the web without and without having to care about codecs, file formats, and hosting. No one wants to have business meetings wearing VR headsets or give NFTs to virtual panhandlers or any of the other silly usecases for a modernized version of Lawnmower Man.
    - nradov 4y ago
      At one point no one wanted to have business meetings on Zoom, but the technology improved and the culture changed such that it's now ubiquitous. Metaverse technology is still really clunky today and used only by a few early adopters, but it's entirely possible that the experience will improve a lot in 10 years. Who knows?
      - 4y ago
bluebit 4y ago
Instructions unclear, piled all available capital into the "metaverse" instead.
Sharlin 4y ago
FB is also the only popular platform where you can do actual "miniblogging" as in record and share your actual thoughts and experiences in a few-paragraphs textual format. But that’s pretty much the opposite of trendy right now.
greatpostman 4y ago
Their current market cap can’t be sustained by going back to their roots. They need addictive attention
- ratg13 4y ago
  Yes, but it's still a dumb idea to make instagram into tiktok rather than catering to their existing audience.
nerdponx 4y ago
This seemed to be their strategy for several years in the early 00s. Facebook was pretty enjoyable to use back then!
thehappypm 4y ago
Yes! Exactly this. Facebook is your online second life. It’s actually you. With that, it doesn’t make as much sense to be the place to mindlessly scroll dance videos, or discuss politics with strangers. It does, however, make for a great place to discuss local things, discuss hobbies, buy and sell things, message people, keep up with friends and family
- vineyardmike 4y ago
  > Facebook is your online second life. It’s actually you. Does anyone want that anymore?
  - thehappypm 4y ago
    I think there are plenty of cases! Groups, especially. There are lots of local community groups where your real identity is useful. Like “I need a dog walker, any recommendations” or “anyone a math tutor?” Or “looking to buy a car”.
themagician 4y ago
FB's core strength today is the boomer market. Definitely something I did NOT see coming 10 years ago. The 60+ crowd practically lives in Facebook Groups now and they will buy basically anything that they see in an ad on FB. You can sell people who are 60+ basically anything on FB if you target them. The pandemic really solidified this, and now the conversion rates are higher than anything I have ever seen anywhere. It's interesting to me because many older FB users barely know how to use the platform and they have invented their own tricks and conventions—my favorite of which is commenting "Following" because they don't know how to follow something, but know that if they leave a comment they will get notifications about responses. I see that every day and I always find it interesting. Every now and then someone calls them out on it and they just don't care. They have developed their own memes and are probably the only group that uses those Bitmoji-esque "What's on your mind" cards. FB can lean into the boomer market and basically print money. FB is going to replace QVC. Hell, they should just buy QVC.
fdewrewrewf 4y ago
I'm glad they will probably fail at that, as I absolutely do not want Facebook to be mandatory for regular life.

tpoacher 4y ago

That's GNU/President Stallman

ok123456 4y ago

Marketplace is the only reason a lot of people still use the site. This is since especially true for people looking for beater cars since Craigslist started charging $5 to post ads for cars. If Apple or someone else with an ax to grind with Facebook really wanted to bust Meta's kneecaps, they could off to subsidize this charge. Maybe also help them out with fraud and spam detection, since that's where most of the overhead on that section is going to come from.

achenatx 4y ago
I use it for groups. Many of our local clubs do great on facebook
- addicted 4y ago
  The problem is that FB has changed groups as well. Groups seem to be redesigned to become more like open billboards than private enclaves with a limited membership. They haven’t gone all the way there, so the groups are still useful, but I’m worried that’s the direction they’re taking.
  - ok123456 4y ago
    Private groups mean less people and less engagement. So they'll try to trick you into opening.
elcomet 4y ago
That might be the reason for you, but there are many other reasons why people still use the site. For example, coordinating events with friends, discover local events, discussing on messenger, sharing photos, discussing in groups...
- ok123456 4y ago
  The people using Marketplace are the people who wouldn't be using the site otherwise, and who are there for the express purpose of doing commerce. No one over 40 would be caught dead of facebook otherwise.
  - max51 4y ago
    >No one over 40 would be caught dead of facebook otherwise. Until their HOA or their sports club start using Facebook as their official platform for announcements and communication. I know there are other free platform that could fill the same role, but you will never find one where literally more than half the adult population already has an account and is familiar with the interface/features. Lots of groups use it because it's the path of least resistance.
    - ok123456 4y ago
      Enough people don't have or won't use facebook in 2022. Email is still the lowest common denominator.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
      - thehappypm 4y ago
        Source? This sounds like conjecture at its finest.
        tenebrisalietum 4y ago
        Can you sign up with Facebook without an email? I know it asks for your phone number but not sure if it still requires an email.
acdha 4y ago
That seems to be getting the same Zuckerberg death-spiral: Facebook has lots of users so it’s tempting but everyone I know who’s tried it was deluged with blatant scam attempts & Google MFA phishing attacks. Skimping on abuse just seems to be the corporate default.
legitster 4y ago
FB is also actively making Marketplace worse. They keep relegating their local pickup products and trying to turn it into a generic online marketplace.
- drstewart 4y ago
  It's annoying, but welcome. As soon as Marketplace dies, I can delete FB forever
almostkorean 4y ago
> Marketplace is the only reason a lot of people still use the site. Do you have any data to back this claim?
- ok123456 4y ago
  Yes. I know several people who only have Facebook accounts because they need it to buy and sell things on Marketplace.

mrweasel 4y ago

"Won't someone please think of the shareholders"... It seems like the obvious idea, it is exactly their strengths and their user base is old enough for those features to be of value. The thing is that would mean making Facebook less valuable, causing the current shareholders to lose money. It's going to be hard to get someone to accept a business plan that will cost them money, even if the alternative is worse long term. Perhaps because you're betting that you can of load our shares before the whole thing goes belly up (whenever that may be). I think your idea makes a lot of sense, it would be cheaper to run, there's less fancy features to develop, might be cheaper to run andless use for moderation. The thing I don't understand well enough is the ads: Can you charge more, because your users are older and buy different things, or do teens and younger people have more disposable income?

nerdponx 4y ago
> The thing is that would mean making Facebook less valuable Would it? Is the stock market completely irrational and incapable of seeing the long-term value here? Or does the market know something we don't?
vineyardmike 4y ago
Zuck owns a majority of the shares and there may not be anyone to please besides him. Also, cutting 50% of the expensive tech jobs sounds profitable to me. The issue is that Zuck is no Craig Newmark. Craig is a nice guy, a philanthropist, and generally a good figure to look up to become one day. > The thing I don't understand well enough is the ads: Can you charge more, because your users are older and buy different things, or do teens and younger people have more disposable income? The ads run at auction, FB doesn't explicitly charge a set price for the inventory. Facebook for years has been running with an inflationary inventory (first fb, then fb newsfeed+fb, then fb+nf+insta, then fb+nf+insta+ insta stories, etc). Meaning that they have more ad slots, and more impressions, and can create a lower (at least in short term) the price per ad, while increasing overall revenue. Remember, Facebook is really good at getting an ad to the right person, so Facebook ad inventory has been valuable. If Facebook stops adding new features, then the inventory becomes static, and the price per ad will rise (again, valuable), and price out their ad customers. (I think the idea is terrible but more feasible than people give credit for).

nradov 4y ago

That would be the low risk strategy. Just run it as a cash cow value business and extract as much profit as possible until it dies. However, Mark Zuckerberg has chosen to bet the company on AR/VR and is investing $10B into that area. If they get it wrong then he'll look like an idiot. If they get it right by building the next major platform for humans to communicate then he'll look like a visionary genius. We won't know which for at least 10 years.

stonogo 4y ago
Why do we need to wait ten years? He's building Second Life with a higher-resolution mesh. Is that visionary?
yojo 4y ago
People gave Google a ton of crap for buying YouTube for 1.6 billion (~16% of annual revenue at the time). That $10B FB spent is more like 8.5% of their revenue. I’m skeptical of the metaverse, but I was also pretty skeptical of user-generated video. And given their current ad take, $10B is not a crazy bet.
- ok123456 4y ago
  Everyone wanted to watch and share video clips on their computer directly on the web without and without having to care about codecs, file formats, and hosting. No one wants to have business meetings wearing VR headsets or give NFTs to virtual panhandlers or any of the other silly usecases for a modernized version of Lawnmower Man.
  - nradov 4y ago
    At one point no one wanted to have business meetings on Zoom, but the technology improved and the culture changed such that it's now ubiquitous. Metaverse technology is still really clunky today and used only by a few early adopters, but it's entirely possible that the experience will improve a lot in 10 years. Who knows?
    - 4y ago

bluebit 4y ago

Instructions unclear, piled all available capital into the "metaverse" instead.

Sharlin 4y ago

FB is also the only popular platform where you can do actual "miniblogging" as in record and share your actual thoughts and experiences in a few-paragraphs textual format. But that’s pretty much the opposite of trendy right now.

greatpostman 4y ago

Their current market cap can’t be sustained by going back to their roots. They need addictive attention

ratg13 4y ago
Yes, but it's still a dumb idea to make instagram into tiktok rather than catering to their existing audience.

nerdponx 4y ago

This seemed to be their strategy for several years in the early 00s. Facebook was pretty enjoyable to use back then!

thehappypm 4y ago

Yes! Exactly this. Facebook is your online second life. It’s actually you. With that, it doesn’t make as much sense to be the place to mindlessly scroll dance videos, or discuss politics with strangers. It does, however, make for a great place to discuss local things, discuss hobbies, buy and sell things, message people, keep up with friends and family

vineyardmike 4y ago
> Facebook is your online second life. It’s actually you. Does anyone want that anymore?
- thehappypm 4y ago
  I think there are plenty of cases! Groups, especially. There are lots of local community groups where your real identity is useful. Like “I need a dog walker, any recommendations” or “anyone a math tutor?” Or “looking to buy a car”.

themagician 4y ago

FB's core strength today is the boomer market. Definitely something I did NOT see coming 10 years ago. The 60+ crowd practically lives in Facebook Groups now and they will buy basically anything that they see in an ad on FB. You can sell people who are 60+ basically anything on FB if you target them. The pandemic really solidified this, and now the conversion rates are higher than anything I have ever seen anywhere. It's interesting to me because many older FB users barely know how to use the platform and they have invented their own tricks and conventions—my favorite of which is commenting "Following" because they don't know how to follow something, but know that if they leave a comment they will get notifications about responses. I see that every day and I always find it interesting. Every now and then someone calls them out on it and they just don't care. They have developed their own memes and are probably the only group that uses those Bitmoji-esque "What's on your mind" cards. FB can lean into the boomer market and basically print money. FB is going to replace QVC. Hell, they should just buy QVC.

fdewrewrewf 4y ago

I'm glad they will probably fail at that, as I absolutely do not want Facebook to be mandatory for regular life.