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People Are Being Arrested in the UK for Protesting Against the Monarchy

32 points by bitcharmer 4y ago

graderjs 4y ago
Long Live the King! :p ;) xx ;p
macintux 4y ago
This was discussed heavily yesterday in another post I can’t find; perhaps it was killed due to the politics.
- djkivi 4y ago
  Try the currently #1 post on the active page: https://news.ycombinator.com/active https://news.ycombinator.com/active https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32817103 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32817103
theprincess 4y ago
The monarchs in the UK are just tax supported public figures now right? Like state funded Kardashians? I understand that they get special consideration, but given their position, it makes me laugh to consider a world where it's illegal to insult anything publicly which is sufficiently popular since it could disturb the peace. Like, could we arrest people who live in a town and openly support the rival football team? Fun to think about a world like that actually!
- alistairSH 4y ago
  It depends. Very briefly... The government funds their official duties out of general revenue via the Sovereign Grant. The various duchies and other revenue producing properties/investments of the crown fund much of the rest (most of these held in trust for the crown, not the live monarch). And the family itself has vast personal wealth.
- hateful 4y ago
  From what I understand, if the royal family was abolished, taxes would go up, not down according to this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhyYgnhhKFw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhyYgnhhKFw
  - yencabulator 4y ago
    This video seems very monarch-apologist. I'm guessing GCP Grey is from the UK, then? Key quote: "Because it's still their land." (1:49 onward) Uh-huh. The real question is, should it be. The video also claims that the only reason historical locations are tourist attractions is because some royal graces them their their presence every now and than, which is just a weird take. I like GCP Grey, but this is one his weakest videos.
- Bancakes 4y ago
  Ultras are a menace. They fight each other, throw flares or smoke grenades, and leave stickers everywhere.
labster 4y ago
Maybe protesting the funeral of a widely respected person isn’t the best way to make one’s point.
- jjgreen 4y ago
  Meanwhile in Oxford, a man was arrested after shouting “who elected him?” as he walked past an event where King Charles III was being proclaimed as the new king on Sunday. Not protesting at a funeral, but at the proclamation of a monarch.
  - lbriner 4y ago
    Not someone who was specifically going to the event to protest though, so he could have read the room and stayed quiet. If protest is to make a point, it doesn't seem like the right thing to do amongst people who presumably support the Monarchy.
    - smileybarry 4y ago
      > If protest is to make a point, it doesn't seem like the right thing to do amongst people who presumably support [the topic being protested]. You've just described protesting.
  - walthamstow 4y ago
    At meaning at the time and location of, or at meaning towards/against? The proclamation was on Saturday, so he wasn't at it in terms of time and location. Protesting against the proclamation is fine, of course. I'd question the judgement of someone doing so at the time and location of an ongoing funeral of that person's mother.
    - jjgreen 4y ago
      There are numerous proclamations: It will take place at 1pm on Sunday September 11 as one of a series of similar events in towns and cities throughout the nation. https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/21252506.charles-iii-formally-proclaimed-king-historic-ceremony-oxford/ https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/21252506.charles-iii-forma...
alistairSH 4y ago
Not surprised, but still disappointed. Technically, calling for abolition of the monarchy is illegal in the UK. But, that particular law hasn't been used since the late 1800s. Most of the current arrests are "breach of peace" or similar offenses. If the "offenses" are as-described (saying "who elected him"; holding a sign peacefully), the arrests are, IMO, unjust. The only one I've read about that might be close to just is the man who yelled "you're a dirty old man" at Prince Andrew during a funerary procession. And even that's pretty borderline, IMO.
- ghusto 4y ago
  Well obviously they have to pretend it's for something else. If they faced it head on with the actual law protecting the monarchy, you could argue directly against it.
lbriner 4y ago
These articles annoy me. They pluralise it to try and make it sound like a large and worrying problem (I think there have been 3 cases). They also imply that somehow protest against the Monarchy is being stamped out when the most obvious and natural explanation is that the Police are using their powers to decide that someone disrupting a public event off the back of millions of people mourning the loss of a much loved Queen is the right thing to do. Regardless of plenty of criticism, the Police in these scenarios have to decide on the spot, regardless of subtle legal arguments, whether what is happening is likely to cause a breach of the peace or to cause massive offence. There is nothing here that I can see that looks like a "worrying trend" etc.
- smileybarry 4y ago
  > A 22-year-old woman was arrested on Sunday outside St Giles cathedral in Edinburgh, where the Queen’s coffin was due to lie until Monday, for holding up a sign that said “fuck imperialism, abolish monarchy.” > [...]Police said the woman had been arrested “in connection with a breach of the peace.” On Monday it was revealed she would face criminal charges, to appear in court at a later date. How is quietly holding up a small sign "disrupting a public event"? And deserving of being arrested and charged? They have a right to protest[1], more so when it's a quiet, unobstructive protest. 1: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/12/what-is-the-law-on-the-right-to-protest-in-the-uk https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/12/what-is-the-la...
  - Trifectaffe6 4y ago
    - smileybarry 4y ago
      Obscene or not, they’re allowed to protest.
    - yencabulator 4y ago
      That's not the definition of obscene. Obscenity, including in the UK law, is largely about sex. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obscenity#United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obscenity#United_Kingdom
haunter 4y ago
I'm more baffled that the American media cares about this so much. Maybe because the protesters haven't been shot?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

32 points by bitcharmer 4y ago

graderjs 4y ago

Long Live the King! :p ;) xx ;p

macintux 4y ago

This was discussed heavily yesterday in another post I can’t find; perhaps it was killed due to the politics.

djkivi 4y ago
Try the currently #1 post on the active page: https://news.ycombinator.com/active https://news.ycombinator.com/active https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32817103 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32817103

theprincess 4y ago

The monarchs in the UK are just tax supported public figures now right? Like state funded Kardashians? I understand that they get special consideration, but given their position, it makes me laugh to consider a world where it's illegal to insult anything publicly which is sufficiently popular since it could disturb the peace. Like, could we arrest people who live in a town and openly support the rival football team? Fun to think about a world like that actually!

alistairSH 4y ago
It depends. Very briefly... The government funds their official duties out of general revenue via the Sovereign Grant. The various duchies and other revenue producing properties/investments of the crown fund much of the rest (most of these held in trust for the crown, not the live monarch). And the family itself has vast personal wealth.
hateful 4y ago
From what I understand, if the royal family was abolished, taxes would go up, not down according to this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhyYgnhhKFw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bhyYgnhhKFw
- yencabulator 4y ago
  This video seems very monarch-apologist. I'm guessing GCP Grey is from the UK, then? Key quote: "Because it's still their land." (1:49 onward) Uh-huh. The real question is, should it be. The video also claims that the only reason historical locations are tourist attractions is because some royal graces them their their presence every now and than, which is just a weird take. I like GCP Grey, but this is one his weakest videos.
Bancakes 4y ago
Ultras are a menace. They fight each other, throw flares or smoke grenades, and leave stickers everywhere.

labster 4y ago

Maybe protesting the funeral of a widely respected person isn’t the best way to make one’s point.

jjgreen 4y ago
Meanwhile in Oxford, a man was arrested after shouting “who elected him?” as he walked past an event where King Charles III was being proclaimed as the new king on Sunday. Not protesting at a funeral, but at the proclamation of a monarch.
- lbriner 4y ago
  Not someone who was specifically going to the event to protest though, so he could have read the room and stayed quiet. If protest is to make a point, it doesn't seem like the right thing to do amongst people who presumably support the Monarchy.
  - smileybarry 4y ago
    > If protest is to make a point, it doesn't seem like the right thing to do amongst people who presumably support [the topic being protested]. You've just described protesting.
- walthamstow 4y ago
  At meaning at the time and location of, or at meaning towards/against? The proclamation was on Saturday, so he wasn't at it in terms of time and location. Protesting against the proclamation is fine, of course. I'd question the judgement of someone doing so at the time and location of an ongoing funeral of that person's mother.
  - jjgreen 4y ago
    There are numerous proclamations: It will take place at 1pm on Sunday September 11 as one of a series of similar events in towns and cities throughout the nation. https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/21252506.charles-iii-formally-proclaimed-king-historic-ceremony-oxford/ https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/21252506.charles-iii-forma...

alistairSH 4y ago

Not surprised, but still disappointed. Technically, calling for abolition of the monarchy is illegal in the UK. But, that particular law hasn't been used since the late 1800s. Most of the current arrests are "breach of peace" or similar offenses. If the "offenses" are as-described (saying "who elected him"; holding a sign peacefully), the arrests are, IMO, unjust. The only one I've read about that might be close to just is the man who yelled "you're a dirty old man" at Prince Andrew during a funerary procession. And even that's pretty borderline, IMO.

ghusto 4y ago
Well obviously they have to pretend it's for something else. If they faced it head on with the actual law protecting the monarchy, you could argue directly against it.

lbriner 4y ago

These articles annoy me. They pluralise it to try and make it sound like a large and worrying problem (I think there have been 3 cases). They also imply that somehow protest against the Monarchy is being stamped out when the most obvious and natural explanation is that the Police are using their powers to decide that someone disrupting a public event off the back of millions of people mourning the loss of a much loved Queen is the right thing to do. Regardless of plenty of criticism, the Police in these scenarios have to decide on the spot, regardless of subtle legal arguments, whether what is happening is likely to cause a breach of the peace or to cause massive offence. There is nothing here that I can see that looks like a "worrying trend" etc.

smileybarry 4y ago
> A 22-year-old woman was arrested on Sunday outside St Giles cathedral in Edinburgh, where the Queen’s coffin was due to lie until Monday, for holding up a sign that said “fuck imperialism, abolish monarchy.” > [...]Police said the woman had been arrested “in connection with a breach of the peace.” On Monday it was revealed she would face criminal charges, to appear in court at a later date. How is quietly holding up a small sign "disrupting a public event"? And deserving of being arrested and charged? They have a right to protest[1], more so when it's a quiet, unobstructive protest. 1: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/12/what-is-the-law-on-the-right-to-protest-in-the-uk https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/sep/12/what-is-the-la...
- Trifectaffe6 4y ago
  - smileybarry 4y ago
    Obscene or not, they’re allowed to protest.
  - yencabulator 4y ago
    That's not the definition of obscene. Obscenity, including in the UK law, is largely about sex. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obscenity#United_Kingdom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obscenity#United_Kingdom

haunter 4y ago

I'm more baffled that the American media cares about this so much. Maybe because the protesters haven't been shot?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]