3 ms·

The title should be: “I don’t like Mtime comparison. Here’s why.” If your name is Dijkstra and it’s 1968 feel free to use the phrase “considered harmful”, othe

The title should be: “I don’t like Mtime comparison. Here’s why.” If your name is Dijkstra and it’s 1968 feel free to use the phrase “considered harmful”, otherwise use plain language.

slbtty 4y ago
Anti-considered-harmful consided harmful. What's wrong with the usage? It is short and concise.
- klodolph 4y ago
  "Short and concise" isn't much praise. If I wanted something short and concise, I could say "is bad", which is probably both more concise and more honest. "Mtime comparison is bad" is more clear and more concise. "Considered harmful" is misleading because the passive voice suggests some kind of general consensus which usually doesn't exist.
- atoav 4y ago
  Who considers it harmful? Some jerk who uses the royal "we" on themselves? The issue with the phrase is, that it is hopelessly overused also for things that are purely subjective or way to general.
- IshKebab 4y ago
  It's presumptuous and hackneyed.
- st_goliath 4y ago
  > What's wrong with the usage? It's such a ridiculously inflationary overused meme to the point that it's getting annoying. There are other contenders: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31836787 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31836787 (In hindsight, I completely forgot "X shades of Y" in this list)
- naniwaduni 4y ago
  Now, wouldn't you mean """considered harmful" considered harmful" considered harmful"?
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
Someone 4y ago
Nitpick: Dijkstra didn’t use “considered harmful”, Niklaus Wirth did. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Considered_harmful#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Considered_harmful#History: The original title of the letter, as submitted to CACM, was "A Case Against the Goto Statement", but CACM editor Niklaus Wirth changed the title to "Goto Statement Considered Harmful". Regarding this new title, Donald Knuth quipped that "Dr. Goto cheerfully complained that he was always being eliminated." Reading that same link, Wirth didn’t invent the cliché, either.
- osigurdson 4y ago
  Noted.
LukeShu 4y ago
> If your name is Dijkstra and it’s 1968 feel free to use the phrase “considered harmful” The phrase "GOTO considered harmful" was actually used by Niklaus Wirth, not Edsger Dijkstra. Dijkstra had submitted his letter with the title "A Case Against the Goto Statement"; and Wirth, as editor, changed it. But also, it was already a journalistic cliché outside of computer science before Wirth applied it to Dijkstra's letter.

The title should be: “I don’t like Mtime comparison. Here’s why.” If your name is Dijkstra and it’s 1968 feel free to use the phrase “considered harmful”, otherwise use plain language.

slbtty 4y ago

Anti-considered-harmful consided harmful. What's wrong with the usage? It is short and concise.

klodolph 4y ago
"Short and concise" isn't much praise. If I wanted something short and concise, I could say "is bad", which is probably both more concise and more honest. "Mtime comparison is bad" is more clear and more concise. "Considered harmful" is misleading because the passive voice suggests some kind of general consensus which usually doesn't exist.
atoav 4y ago
Who considers it harmful? Some jerk who uses the royal "we" on themselves? The issue with the phrase is, that it is hopelessly overused also for things that are purely subjective or way to general.
IshKebab 4y ago
It's presumptuous and hackneyed.
st_goliath 4y ago
> What's wrong with the usage? It's such a ridiculously inflationary overused meme to the point that it's getting annoying. There are other contenders: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31836787 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31836787 (In hindsight, I completely forgot "X shades of Y" in this list)
naniwaduni 4y ago
Now, wouldn't you mean """considered harmful" considered harmful" considered harmful"?
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]

Someone 4y ago

Nitpick: Dijkstra didn’t use “considered harmful”, Niklaus Wirth did. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Considered_harmful#History https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Considered_harmful#History: The original title of the letter, as submitted to CACM, was "A Case Against the Goto Statement", but CACM editor Niklaus Wirth changed the title to "Goto Statement Considered Harmful". Regarding this new title, Donald Knuth quipped that "Dr. Goto cheerfully complained that he was always being eliminated." Reading that same link, Wirth didn’t invent the cliché, either.

osigurdson 4y ago
Noted.

LukeShu 4y ago

> If your name is Dijkstra and it’s 1968 feel free to use the phrase “considered harmful” The phrase "GOTO considered harmful" was actually used by Niklaus Wirth, not Edsger Dijkstra. Dijkstra had submitted his letter with the title "A Case Against the Goto Statement"; and Wirth, as editor, changed it. But also, it was already a journalistic cliché outside of computer science before Wirth applied it to Dijkstra's letter.