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I would be happier eating meat than living longer, caring about its carbon footprint or any ethical issues people have with farming. I don’t mind daily exercis

I would be happier eating meat than living longer, caring about its carbon footprint or any ethical issues people have with farming. I don’t mind daily exercise, drinking a green tea now and then and not over indulging on the booze, but I’m not going to be a vegetarian for any of the reasons I’ve come across so far.

ajdegol 4y ago
I am curious, I’ve seen several people recently quite proud they cause environmental harm. I can understand ignorance, I can get you believe something contrary; I just can’t fathom why you’re pleased that you’re actively causing harm for the planet we all live on.
- ohCh6zos 4y ago
  Eating meat is part of the good and moral life, and while we need to take care of the planet we need to preserve the good.
  - AlexandrB 4y ago
    Can you elaborate on why eating meat specifically is good and moral?
    - ohCh6zos 4y ago
      I should start this by saying I don't support forcing anyone to do anything they don't want to, and for environmental reasons I very rarely eat meat. That being said I believe everyone aught to eat at least a little meat because we are omnivores and it is advantageous for us to be able to, we don't know what the future holds and in evolution if you don't use it you lose it.
  - rtev 4y ago
    (citation needed)
- black_light_man 4y ago
  - plonk 4y ago
    I don't understand why every discussion about climate change ends up with this comment. We know, the rock and the bacteria will be fine, that's obviously not what people worry about. We care about the Earth because it sustains us.
    - black_light_man 4y ago
- endtime 4y ago
  My guess is that it's less about the environmental harm, and more about spiting preachy evangelists.
  - hombre_fatal 4y ago
    Dunno, the top level comments to studies like this (like the current thread) are often preachy, defensive posts about keeping meat in their diet despite TFA. People like lashing out to defend their world view.
- mrelectric 4y ago
  I just really like meat.
  - neuralRiot 4y ago
- aunty_helen 4y ago
  It's not a pride thing, entropy increases with all life. Does eating meat make any kind of significant difference for me or my footprint? Probably not significantly. Do I want to live gen-less and eat beans and rice? No. I should also mention, apparently mossy earth plants a tree or two for me each month. Perhaps you'd like to join them in offsetting your lifestyle (whatever that may be).
  - drekk 4y ago
    Eating meat is the second largest contribution to lifestyle emissions generally after having children. It takes a thousand gallons of water to produce a typical burger patty. You can have as many of those in the desert as you'd like. Heck, we even grow the alfalfa to feed those cows in the desert. People act like going vegetarian is some giant sacrifice. It's not that hard. Westerners just view it as poor people stuff. If you want meat to be a luxury so bad then let's cut the subsidies and see what the real cost of it is when you factor in the actual impact.
    - aunty_helen 4y ago
      Very American centric farming practices and concerns you have. Not everywhere grows 2 acres of corn to feed to livestock. I grew up on a farm in New Zealand, water is plentiful, cows eat grass and are calved on milk that for one reason or another would be wasted otherwise. Processing of the meat was done in the paddock by a home kill butcher. In the same way people like going on cruises but don’t worry about how much bunker fuel it burns, I like eating meat and will continue to do so. If you want to be vegetarian great, but I’m making a lifestyle choice that I’ll eat meat because I enjoy it and all of the dishes that can’t be made without it.
      - neuralRiot 4y ago
        See my “box” above and all its content, I’ll summarize -“I only eat meat/eggs/milk from my uncle’s farm” - “I only eat what I hunt, kill, fish, trap, find” - “Plants have feelings too!” - “Studies are not conclusive/improperly done/biased/too old” - “I love meat” -“Lab meat is the future” - “ But mice/bees/small animals/ butterflies/ bedbugs in fields” - “Plant based diets are elitist” - “Protein tho” - “B12 tho” - “A friend of the brother of the neighbor of my dentist ended in the hospital after trying to be vegan for 6 hours.” After being vegan for 10+ years I’ve heard everything, you know what all sounds to me? “I don’t care enough to make the slightest effort”.
azakai 4y ago
You don't need to be a vegetarian or vegan. Just eating less meat helps significantly with the things you mentioned. For example if everyone ate say 50% less meat we'd make a noticeable impact on climate change. I am a vegan myself, but of course everyone can find the right tradeoff for themselves. I do think it's clear though that reducing meat consumption by some amount is just better overall for the planet, to avoid animal suffering, and for our health.
- cies 4y ago
  > You don't need to be [...] vegan And that from a vegan! I personally find what humans do to animals so heartless and disgusting (totally destroying animal lives to have a little pleasure in the mouth; while it is not necessary), that I regularly compare those indulging in animal food to peadosexuals: they destroy someones life over some short sensual pleasure. I'm on the contrary: veganism should be a moral baseline.
  - cdelsolar 4y ago
    Lol
  - vt85 4y ago
  - samatman 4y ago
    That's fine. Just understand that I consider you a law-abiding terrorist.
    - myshpa 4y ago
  - mirror_neuron 4y ago
    Serious question: how is the destruction of animal life for sustenance different from the destruction of plant life? I'll give you my answer, and hopefully you can share your thoughts (or other answers entirely) to help clarify my thinking. I conclude that we draw a line between animals and other kinds of life because we are more like animals than other kinds of life. And "likeness with ourselves" seems like an arbitrary way of dividing life. Extrapolating in the other direction: why don't we practice cannibalism, as other animals do? Perhaps we find cannibalism dangerous and impractical, but also that the typical human carries social instincts that make the behavior distasteful (which in turn leads to taboos in many -- but not all -- of our cultures). One of my favorite expressions is that "there are no boundaries in nature". That is to say: all dividing lines between categories are invented, regardless of how useful those lines may be. And human constructs change with time and culture. The line between "destroying a someone" and "harvesting a resource" may depend very much on time and place. I'm not trying to criticize your position, only trying to clarify my own. I would appreciate your thoughts (or links to the thoughts of others).
melling 4y ago
I don’t mind eating less meat in order to try and be healthier. It really comes down to finding tasty meals to have instead. I’ll get a nice risotto instead of a steak more often these days, and I now make it myself. Probably impossible for me to completely give up meat but I try to make it a less frequent option.

ajdegol 4y ago

I am curious, I’ve seen several people recently quite proud they cause environmental harm. I can understand ignorance, I can get you believe something contrary; I just can’t fathom why you’re pleased that you’re actively causing harm for the planet we all live on.

ohCh6zos 4y ago
Eating meat is part of the good and moral life, and while we need to take care of the planet we need to preserve the good.
- AlexandrB 4y ago
  Can you elaborate on why eating meat specifically is good and moral?
  - ohCh6zos 4y ago
    I should start this by saying I don't support forcing anyone to do anything they don't want to, and for environmental reasons I very rarely eat meat. That being said I believe everyone aught to eat at least a little meat because we are omnivores and it is advantageous for us to be able to, we don't know what the future holds and in evolution if you don't use it you lose it.
- rtev 4y ago
  (citation needed)
black_light_man 4y ago
- plonk 4y ago
  I don't understand why every discussion about climate change ends up with this comment. We know, the rock and the bacteria will be fine, that's obviously not what people worry about. We care about the Earth because it sustains us.
  - black_light_man 4y ago
endtime 4y ago
My guess is that it's less about the environmental harm, and more about spiting preachy evangelists.
- hombre_fatal 4y ago
  Dunno, the top level comments to studies like this (like the current thread) are often preachy, defensive posts about keeping meat in their diet despite TFA. People like lashing out to defend their world view.
mrelectric 4y ago
I just really like meat.
- neuralRiot 4y ago
aunty_helen 4y ago
It's not a pride thing, entropy increases with all life. Does eating meat make any kind of significant difference for me or my footprint? Probably not significantly. Do I want to live gen-less and eat beans and rice? No. I should also mention, apparently mossy earth plants a tree or two for me each month. Perhaps you'd like to join them in offsetting your lifestyle (whatever that may be).
- drekk 4y ago
  Eating meat is the second largest contribution to lifestyle emissions generally after having children. It takes a thousand gallons of water to produce a typical burger patty. You can have as many of those in the desert as you'd like. Heck, we even grow the alfalfa to feed those cows in the desert. People act like going vegetarian is some giant sacrifice. It's not that hard. Westerners just view it as poor people stuff. If you want meat to be a luxury so bad then let's cut the subsidies and see what the real cost of it is when you factor in the actual impact.
  - aunty_helen 4y ago
    Very American centric farming practices and concerns you have. Not everywhere grows 2 acres of corn to feed to livestock. I grew up on a farm in New Zealand, water is plentiful, cows eat grass and are calved on milk that for one reason or another would be wasted otherwise. Processing of the meat was done in the paddock by a home kill butcher. In the same way people like going on cruises but don’t worry about how much bunker fuel it burns, I like eating meat and will continue to do so. If you want to be vegetarian great, but I’m making a lifestyle choice that I’ll eat meat because I enjoy it and all of the dishes that can’t be made without it.
    - neuralRiot 4y ago
      See my “box” above and all its content, I’ll summarize -“I only eat meat/eggs/milk from my uncle’s farm” - “I only eat what I hunt, kill, fish, trap, find” - “Plants have feelings too!” - “Studies are not conclusive/improperly done/biased/too old” - “I love meat” -“Lab meat is the future” - “ But mice/bees/small animals/ butterflies/ bedbugs in fields” - “Plant based diets are elitist” - “Protein tho” - “B12 tho” - “A friend of the brother of the neighbor of my dentist ended in the hospital after trying to be vegan for 6 hours.” After being vegan for 10+ years I’ve heard everything, you know what all sounds to me? “I don’t care enough to make the slightest effort”.

azakai 4y ago

You don't need to be a vegetarian or vegan. Just eating less meat helps significantly with the things you mentioned. For example if everyone ate say 50% less meat we'd make a noticeable impact on climate change. I am a vegan myself, but of course everyone can find the right tradeoff for themselves. I do think it's clear though that reducing meat consumption by some amount is just better overall for the planet, to avoid animal suffering, and for our health.

cies 4y ago
> You don't need to be [...] vegan And that from a vegan! I personally find what humans do to animals so heartless and disgusting (totally destroying animal lives to have a little pleasure in the mouth; while it is not necessary), that I regularly compare those indulging in animal food to peadosexuals: they destroy someones life over some short sensual pleasure. I'm on the contrary: veganism should be a moral baseline.
- cdelsolar 4y ago
  Lol
- vt85 4y ago
- samatman 4y ago
  That's fine. Just understand that I consider you a law-abiding terrorist.
  - myshpa 4y ago
- mirror_neuron 4y ago
  Serious question: how is the destruction of animal life for sustenance different from the destruction of plant life? I'll give you my answer, and hopefully you can share your thoughts (or other answers entirely) to help clarify my thinking. I conclude that we draw a line between animals and other kinds of life because we are more like animals than other kinds of life. And "likeness with ourselves" seems like an arbitrary way of dividing life. Extrapolating in the other direction: why don't we practice cannibalism, as other animals do? Perhaps we find cannibalism dangerous and impractical, but also that the typical human carries social instincts that make the behavior distasteful (which in turn leads to taboos in many -- but not all -- of our cultures). One of my favorite expressions is that "there are no boundaries in nature". That is to say: all dividing lines between categories are invented, regardless of how useful those lines may be. And human constructs change with time and culture. The line between "destroying a someone" and "harvesting a resource" may depend very much on time and place. I'm not trying to criticize your position, only trying to clarify my own. I would appreciate your thoughts (or links to the thoughts of others).

melling 4y ago

I don’t mind eating less meat in order to try and be healthier. It really comes down to finding tasty meals to have instead. I’ll get a nice risotto instead of a steak more often these days, and I now make it myself. Probably impossible for me to completely give up meat but I try to make it a less frequent option.