7 ms·

Not in winter, they aren't. Yes, there are always a few folks who will pull their bikes out in 0°F (-18°C) and go out on icy roads, but they are a vast minorit

Not in winter, they aren't. Yes, there are always a few folks who will pull their bikes out in 0°F (-18°C) and go out on icy roads, but they are a vast minority. And a lot of cities in the world experience those kinds of temperatures. Also, bikes (especially individual bikes) are not very compatible with many types of disabilities. We really should keep accessibility in mind when working on Urban areas.

hddherman 4y ago
Not Just Bikes made a great overview of what makes driving a bicycle in the winter possible: https://youtu.be/Uhx-26GfCBU https://youtu.be/Uhx-26GfCBU tl;dw: properly designed infrastructure and first-class maintenance results in people actually choosing to opt for the bicycle, even during winter.
lthornberry 4y ago
Cars are also not compatible with many types of disabilities. Cars will need to be part of the transit mix, but they don't need to dominate it.
ch4s3 4y ago
> Yes, there are always a few folks who will pull their bikes out in 0°F (-18°C) and go out on icy roads Luckily this doesn't apply everywhere. > Also, bikes (especially individual bikes) are not very compatible with many types of disabilities. We really should keep accessibility in mind when working on Urban areas. Well, sure but neither are the small cars that people often prefer in urban areas. Grade level light rail can be great for accessibility but can be hard to drop in place and expensive. Building out bike infrastructure is pretty cheap and in many circumstances can leave more space for other uses. It's a lot easier to get in and out of a van on a street narrowed for bike lanes, because either traffic will have to wait, or will be slower moving.
- coolsunglasses 4y ago
  Bro it gets freakin' cold in the winter in Austin, TX and we're further south than Tunis, Tunisia; San Diego, CA; Alexandria, Egypt; Casablanca, Morocco; Tucson, AZ; Basra, Iraq and Osaka, JP. How much further south would you like us to go? Should we conquer Mexico just so we can ride bikes in December? What risks should my very pregnant-for-the-last-three-years wife take? What if we lose a child or for that matter _her_ because she slipped on the ice? How is she going to get groceries for our family of five-soon-six from the grocery store that is miles away from our house? You people don't live where the rest of us live. You're callously indifferent to the pain caused by policy designed to inflict economic damage on the middle class. POSIWID. You hope you can condense the economic violence into the other-world you would prefer to live in. I'm from Ohio where I rode a motorcycle in the dark for my second shifts at the warehouse through the entire winter and I still wouldn't wish bicycling _by necessity_ in the winter here on my worst enemy. Good way to cull the elderly if that's what you're going for. We can't all be healthy 20-something males though.
  - lelandbatey 4y ago
    Overall, we're not trying to force you and everyone else to cut over to bikes tomorrow, since for those individuals like yourself, your environment doesn't support biking at all. Hopefully though, we see a greater focus on building environments where biking does make sense, and less on car-centric living. However, to break down some of the specifics you mentioned: The average low in Austin Texas is 43°F with rare dips below freezing (32°F). Looking at the temperature history for the last winter, Austin saw temperatures drop to freezing on 7 days during December and January[1]. When it's not freezing, at those temperatures, you can absolutely ride a bike safely and comfortably (though you'll need to put on some extra clothing to stay warm). As for your other questions: > What risks should my very pregnant-for-the-last-three-years wife take? She should take the risks she feels comfortable taking. In the opinion of me and my wife (we live in Seattle), we'd feel quite comfy biking in your city (as long as the paths are safe) during any of that weather as long as it's not freezing. If it was freezing and we knew we needed to go somewhere, we'd take a fatbike[2] (yes, that's their unfortunate name, and they work great in snow and ice with their huge tires). > What if we lose a child or for that matter _her_ because she slipped on the ice? That would be tragic, but ice means we all take that risk every time we travel by bicycle or by car. Driving a car on the ice is dangerous, even if driving feels safe and familiar. Thankfully, traveling on a bicycle means you're traveling at lower speeds, so should an accident or slip occur, the likelyhood of serious injury or death is far lower than at high speed in a car. > How is she going to get groceries for our family of five-soon-six from the grocery store that is miles away from our house? Cargo bicycles[3] make getting groceries, even lots and lots of groceries, even transporting small furniture, easy! However, you living many miles from a grocery store does make this all more difficult; I realize that where and what type of housing is available isn't totally up to you. Baked into your comment is the statement of some real facts: that bicycling infrastructure isn't well developed where you live, the entire environment of where you live is built around making transport by car the easiest and often the only available option, and if you tried to adopt it personally now, it would be unfamiliar, dangerous, slow, inconvenient, etc. I think you're right that all those things are true. Trying to convince folks that they should bike to the giant Walmart that's 10 miles away for their daily groceries in the same way they might via a car, that's probably not going to go well, and I don't think it has gone well. That's why most of the constructive discourse I see, like the original article, is focusing on reshaping urban infrastructure around bicyling since that's where the density is. Hopefully we see that happen, and hopefully in the coming decades we see a reduction in investment into car-centric living (huge car-only suburbs with only homes and nothing to walk to for miles around), and an increase into more modest walkable suburbs with greater support for mixed use land (closer grocery stores) and the higher density housing (smaller lot sizes and smaller homes) which provide enough density to support the businesses in those walkable areas. [0] - https://weatherspark.com/y/8004/Average-Weather-in-Austin-Texas-United-States-Year-Round https://weatherspark.com/y/8004/Average-Weather-in-Austin-Te... [1] - https://www.wunderground.com/history/monthly/us/tx/austin/KAUS/date/2022-1 https://www.wunderground.com/history/monthly/us/tx/austin/KA... [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatbike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatbike [3] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_bike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_bike
- spicybright 4y ago
  I used to care for a man with quadriplegia as a care assistant for about a year. It made me realize a lot of things with disability parking. Everything took 5x as long, handicap spots were hard to find, and you can forget taking a train if you want to do anything else that day. The wheelchair van was his lifeline to the rest of the world. So from that, I'm personally against banning cars in city centers for that reason. It wouldn't be too difficult to restrict roads to handicap placard drivers and a limited number of commercial vehicles. You'd just need a lot of cops and parking enforcers (not bad for job creation!) And, while I'm no road engineer, I imagine the results would be a large drop in car traffic, and very little infra to build to make it happen. You can even just block off certain roads and turn them into pedestrian only spaces.
  - forgotusername6 4y ago
    Parking and lane enforcement can and should be automated. The disabled status is linked to the license plate and driving on the wrong road with that status leads to an automatic fine. In the UK we already have automatic fines for speeding, jumping lights, stopping in a no stop zone, using a bus lane, not paying a toll. This is no different.
    - spicybright 4y ago
      Fair, but infrastructure is notoriously hard to build in the US. The US disabled status works different here too. You're only given disability privileges while in a car with your own handicap placard in the window (it's assigned to a person) I actually like this a lot better than a plate because it's trivial to know if someone in the car actually needs a spot or not, and discourages use of the car by friends/family that don't qualify for using the (often limited) access to handicap spots. Also allows you to drive any car and still get the same privileges.
  - ch4s3 4y ago
    I'm clearly not opposed to special accommodations for people who need vans and other special transport. I don't think it's a good argument for the status quo though. It's possible to restrict most private vehicles from a city center and still allow things like vans the disabled. Obviously there is tension here around pedestrian only streets, but making sidewalks more accessible to electric wheelchairs seems very doable.
ackfoobar 4y ago
With the infrastructure it can be. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU Of course bikes won't be the solution for everyone, but as the saying goes, don't let perfect be the enemy of good.
justinator 4y ago
> Not in winter, they aren't. Like most difficulties with cycling in the cities, the most dangerous part of it are sharing resources with cars. Cycling in the winter isn't so bad if properly dressed. Even now, the cycle paths get plowed before the roads. > Also, bikes (especially individual bikes) are not very compatible with many types of disabilities. We really should keep accessibility in mind when working on Urban areas. Totally agree. Most bike infrastructure works well for those with disabilities. The coming goal with bike friendly cities is livable cities for all, and not one that's built for cars first, and people second. It's the same sharedd evil conspiracy agenda. ;)
- justinator 4y ago
  s/coming goal/common goal/ my apologies.
JustSomeNobody 4y ago
> Not in winter, they aren't. Thunderstorms in Florida, also. Or even just the humidity. If you want to go anywhere looking like you just jumped fully clothed into a swimming pool, sure, go for it.
lucideer 4y ago
Both of your counter examples are minority cases. Motorised vehicles (both public transit & other private/vocational/individual) are a fantastic utility, and one we should never get rid of. The problem is scale: bikes can absolutely supplant a significant portion of current motorised urban transit.
moooo99 4y ago
> Yes, there are always a few folks who will pull their bikes out in 0°F (-18°C) and go out on icy roads, but they are a vast minority. And a lot of cities in the world experience those kinds of temperatures. The majority of population centers are outside of regions with that kind of low temperatures. Even if the temperatures get that low, its usually not for the majority of the year. And cities with well planned out and maintained cycling infrastructure do demonstrate that cycling even with low temperatures is a feasible mode of transportation. > Also, bikes (especially individual bikes) are not very compatible with many types of disabilities. Getting rid of cars that don't _need_ to be in a city makes space for cars that do need to be there. Very few people who are seriously debating this topic are for banning every kind of motorized vehicle outright. Obviously there are many cases where cars/trucks are the only feasible/best option, even in a city. Emergency vehicles, delivery trucks or vehicles for people with limited mobility. > We really should keep accessibility in mind when working on Urban areas. Cars are incredibly expensive. They are even more expensive if you have special needs (that is, if your disability even allows you to drive at all). Pedestrianized and bike friendly areas, that often go hand in hand with well designed public transportation infrastructure, are far more accessible than car-centric planning ever could be.
- mrwh 4y ago
  Indeed! We already have dedicated parking spaces for the disabled. Keep those, get rid of all the others.
- mattmaroon 4y ago
  Umm no they’re not. And the ones that are just have the opposite problem half the year. Very few cities are in a climate where all but the most hardcore people will want to bike more than half the time. Go down the list of American cities by population. NYC, Chicago, Philly, etc. Not biking in the cold months. Megacities in Texas, Cali, Florida, AZ: not biking in hot months. This might work for Honolulu or San Diego and that’s about it, even if you completely disregard the 50% of the population that couldn’t ride a bike in any weather due to being old, injured, obese, etc. It’s preposterous to think this is an actual solution. Getting rid of cars necessitates some other motorized form of transport from which you can’t easily fall and get injured.
thescriptkiddie 4y ago
Cycling in the winter is fine, actually. Bikes cope with snow and ice better than cars, and the physical exertion keeps you warmer than you would be on foot.
- dominotw 4y ago
  > and the physical exertion keeps you warmer than you would be on foot. Only if you are not sweating. Once you sweat its game over. You are probably thinking of very short pre sweating distances. Only way to bike moderate to long distance is to dress in layers and shed layers as you get warm and let the moisture get out. You also need moisture wicking base layers and moisture expelling mid layer.
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rco8786 4y ago
Not in summer either. Nobody wants to show up to their destination a sweaty mess.
- stingrae 4y ago
  hence ebikes.
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scarier 4y ago
I would argue that various forms of cycles (going well beyond the UCI definition of a bicycle, but still using common components powered primarily by a human) are much more compatible with disabilities than cars are. I've seen both double-arm and double-leg amputees cycling, among others.
- ndsipa_pomu 4y ago
  Cycles (bikes, trikes etc) are sometimes more compatible with disabilities. As they support your weight, they can be better for people with standing/walking issues. Some sight issues can be dangerous for driving, but manageable for cycling (e.g. I'm a bit short sighted which is fine for cycling as if something is too blurry, I can just go closer to it if I need to read something). The ability to come to a stop safely in almost any scenario means that some sufferers of epilepsy can safely cycle whilst being unable or not allowed to drive (here in the UK, I think there's a time limit of something like three years since your last attack).
sirmarksalot 4y ago
A system that requires nearly everyone to drive cars is not compatible with disabilities. If fewer people drive, it frees up road space for people who actually need to drive, as opposed to people who drive because it's the easiest way to get around. Also note that cars are often not a good fit for many kinds of disabilities. Public transit works much better with only minor modifications.
agumonkey 4y ago
Then bike in warm days and other means during winter.
teucris 4y ago
> Also, bikes (especially individual bikes) are not very compatible with many types of disabilities. We really should keep accessibility in mind when working on Urban areas. That’s what accessibility-oriented public transit is for. The goal isn’t to replace all transit with bikes; it’s to reduce the dependence on cars by leveraging bikes more to make safer, healthier urban environments.
AtlasBarfed 4y ago
I lived in minnesota, five mile commute. Cold is very very doable. Ice does suck, but that's more of a tire issue. Cold and snow? Eh, bundle up and biking in winter is actually kind of fun. The cold really isn't any different than getting into a cold car in winter. The car warms up when you drive it, you warm up when you ride a bike. Rain really sucks though. I don't have a good solution for rain. What is the best for bike commuting is the lack of aggravation from driving, and knowing that basically no matter what you'll get from X to Y in a known amount of time. There's no traffic jams in bikes, at least not in the US. Oh, aside from security risk, the ability to basically ride directly to where you're going and park RIGHT THERE is the #2 best thing about biking places (#1 being the reduced stress). E-bikes should be even more amazing. I was a triathlete so I was a fit biker and wind/hills didn't bother me, but e-bikes eliminate that for the whole population. What sucks: - securing bikes, they are simply far too easy to steal. I guess in europe and big US cities there are real problems with this: tracker chips don't work, U-locks get shattered with liquid nitrogen, etc. What's nice about e-bikes is that you can get a heavier bike with a bit more security, but still, easy to drive up with van, shatter lock, take bike. - rain, already mentioned - flats are still far too common - bikes aren't really that much of a money saver if you already have a car. They help with stress, fun, exercise, but between bike tuneups and flat tires and other stuff, they aren't really that cheap. Especially once you get into panniers and racks and that type of thing. - drivers and danger in general. Bikes aren't a safe mode of transportation in the US unless you have good dedicated bike paths (Minneapolis is really really amazing for this, I never appreciated it until I moved somewhere else).
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xchip 4y ago
If you have hemorrhoids you also can't use it.
fknorangesite 4y ago
I live in a place where it is very consistently below -20C in the winter. Sure, I'm not going to bike in that (especially +snow), but you know what? Being able to do most of my intra-city travel by bicycle 75% of the year is still a big win over 0%.
post_break 4y ago
Not in summer, they aren't. Arizona, Texas, etc. I don't even ride my motorcycle in the hot months. I just wish we built more European style housing with shops on the bottom floor with housing above it, walk able city blocks, etc.
the_gastropod 4y ago
Why is driving a 2 ton car safer in icy conditions than riding a 20lb bicycle? And the disability thing: there are a wide variety of disabilities. 76% of disabled people are able to ride a bicycle [1]. Only 60% of disabled people are able to drive a car [2]. [1] https://content.tfl.gov.uk/cycling-action-plan-large-print-version.pdf https://content.tfl.gov.uk/cycling-action-plan-large-print-v... [2] https://www.bts.gov/archive/publications/freedom_to_travel/data_analysis https://www.bts.gov/archive/publications/freedom_to_travel/d...
- recursive 4y ago
  If a car slides a little in a corner, there's a good chance to correct it. If a bike slides a little in a corner (at least the front wheel) you are definitely going down.
  - the_gastropod 4y ago
    Well, yea—the person inside the 2-ton steel cage is probably going to be fine. It's the nearby pedestrians, cyclists, houses, etc. whose safety I was interested in.
whazor 4y ago
At those very low temperatures, but also at very high hot temperatures, you are basically living like an astronaut. In that case I don't see a way around the car as well. But for disabilities, the infrastructure for bikes is much better accessibility wise. It allows for electric wheelchairs or wheelchairs with handcycles in front. The car roads are often too dangerous or require the ability to drive, whereas a bike path is low-key and allows all kinds of slower traffic.
nedt 4y ago
But for those conditions a car also isn't a good fit. I've seen it in Sweden, where they have snow or ice on the roads for months and they drive Ski-Doos instead. Haven't seen a self driving one yet.

hddherman 4y ago

Not Just Bikes made a great overview of what makes driving a bicycle in the winter possible: https://youtu.be/Uhx-26GfCBU https://youtu.be/Uhx-26GfCBU tl;dw: properly designed infrastructure and first-class maintenance results in people actually choosing to opt for the bicycle, even during winter.

lthornberry 4y ago

Cars are also not compatible with many types of disabilities. Cars will need to be part of the transit mix, but they don't need to dominate it.

ch4s3 4y ago

> Yes, there are always a few folks who will pull their bikes out in 0°F (-18°C) and go out on icy roads Luckily this doesn't apply everywhere. > Also, bikes (especially individual bikes) are not very compatible with many types of disabilities. We really should keep accessibility in mind when working on Urban areas. Well, sure but neither are the small cars that people often prefer in urban areas. Grade level light rail can be great for accessibility but can be hard to drop in place and expensive. Building out bike infrastructure is pretty cheap and in many circumstances can leave more space for other uses. It's a lot easier to get in and out of a van on a street narrowed for bike lanes, because either traffic will have to wait, or will be slower moving.

coolsunglasses 4y ago
Bro it gets freakin' cold in the winter in Austin, TX and we're further south than Tunis, Tunisia; San Diego, CA; Alexandria, Egypt; Casablanca, Morocco; Tucson, AZ; Basra, Iraq and Osaka, JP. How much further south would you like us to go? Should we conquer Mexico just so we can ride bikes in December? What risks should my very pregnant-for-the-last-three-years wife take? What if we lose a child or for that matter _her_ because she slipped on the ice? How is she going to get groceries for our family of five-soon-six from the grocery store that is miles away from our house? You people don't live where the rest of us live. You're callously indifferent to the pain caused by policy designed to inflict economic damage on the middle class. POSIWID. You hope you can condense the economic violence into the other-world you would prefer to live in. I'm from Ohio where I rode a motorcycle in the dark for my second shifts at the warehouse through the entire winter and I still wouldn't wish bicycling _by necessity_ in the winter here on my worst enemy. Good way to cull the elderly if that's what you're going for. We can't all be healthy 20-something males though.
- lelandbatey 4y ago
  Overall, we're not trying to force you and everyone else to cut over to bikes tomorrow, since for those individuals like yourself, your environment doesn't support biking at all. Hopefully though, we see a greater focus on building environments where biking does make sense, and less on car-centric living. However, to break down some of the specifics you mentioned: The average low in Austin Texas is 43°F with rare dips below freezing (32°F). Looking at the temperature history for the last winter, Austin saw temperatures drop to freezing on 7 days during December and January[1]. When it's not freezing, at those temperatures, you can absolutely ride a bike safely and comfortably (though you'll need to put on some extra clothing to stay warm). As for your other questions: > What risks should my very pregnant-for-the-last-three-years wife take? She should take the risks she feels comfortable taking. In the opinion of me and my wife (we live in Seattle), we'd feel quite comfy biking in your city (as long as the paths are safe) during any of that weather as long as it's not freezing. If it was freezing and we knew we needed to go somewhere, we'd take a fatbike[2] (yes, that's their unfortunate name, and they work great in snow and ice with their huge tires). > What if we lose a child or for that matter _her_ because she slipped on the ice? That would be tragic, but ice means we all take that risk every time we travel by bicycle or by car. Driving a car on the ice is dangerous, even if driving feels safe and familiar. Thankfully, traveling on a bicycle means you're traveling at lower speeds, so should an accident or slip occur, the likelyhood of serious injury or death is far lower than at high speed in a car. > How is she going to get groceries for our family of five-soon-six from the grocery store that is miles away from our house? Cargo bicycles[3] make getting groceries, even lots and lots of groceries, even transporting small furniture, easy! However, you living many miles from a grocery store does make this all more difficult; I realize that where and what type of housing is available isn't totally up to you. Baked into your comment is the statement of some real facts: that bicycling infrastructure isn't well developed where you live, the entire environment of where you live is built around making transport by car the easiest and often the only available option, and if you tried to adopt it personally now, it would be unfamiliar, dangerous, slow, inconvenient, etc. I think you're right that all those things are true. Trying to convince folks that they should bike to the giant Walmart that's 10 miles away for their daily groceries in the same way they might via a car, that's probably not going to go well, and I don't think it has gone well. That's why most of the constructive discourse I see, like the original article, is focusing on reshaping urban infrastructure around bicyling since that's where the density is. Hopefully we see that happen, and hopefully in the coming decades we see a reduction in investment into car-centric living (huge car-only suburbs with only homes and nothing to walk to for miles around), and an increase into more modest walkable suburbs with greater support for mixed use land (closer grocery stores) and the higher density housing (smaller lot sizes and smaller homes) which provide enough density to support the businesses in those walkable areas. [0] - https://weatherspark.com/y/8004/Average-Weather-in-Austin-Texas-United-States-Year-Round https://weatherspark.com/y/8004/Average-Weather-in-Austin-Te... [1] - https://www.wunderground.com/history/monthly/us/tx/austin/KAUS/date/2022-1 https://www.wunderground.com/history/monthly/us/tx/austin/KA... [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatbike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatbike [3] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_bike https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_bike
spicybright 4y ago
I used to care for a man with quadriplegia as a care assistant for about a year. It made me realize a lot of things with disability parking. Everything took 5x as long, handicap spots were hard to find, and you can forget taking a train if you want to do anything else that day. The wheelchair van was his lifeline to the rest of the world. So from that, I'm personally against banning cars in city centers for that reason. It wouldn't be too difficult to restrict roads to handicap placard drivers and a limited number of commercial vehicles. You'd just need a lot of cops and parking enforcers (not bad for job creation!) And, while I'm no road engineer, I imagine the results would be a large drop in car traffic, and very little infra to build to make it happen. You can even just block off certain roads and turn them into pedestrian only spaces.
- forgotusername6 4y ago
  Parking and lane enforcement can and should be automated. The disabled status is linked to the license plate and driving on the wrong road with that status leads to an automatic fine. In the UK we already have automatic fines for speeding, jumping lights, stopping in a no stop zone, using a bus lane, not paying a toll. This is no different.
  - spicybright 4y ago
    Fair, but infrastructure is notoriously hard to build in the US. The US disabled status works different here too. You're only given disability privileges while in a car with your own handicap placard in the window (it's assigned to a person) I actually like this a lot better than a plate because it's trivial to know if someone in the car actually needs a spot or not, and discourages use of the car by friends/family that don't qualify for using the (often limited) access to handicap spots. Also allows you to drive any car and still get the same privileges.
- ch4s3 4y ago
  I'm clearly not opposed to special accommodations for people who need vans and other special transport. I don't think it's a good argument for the status quo though. It's possible to restrict most private vehicles from a city center and still allow things like vans the disabled. Obviously there is tension here around pedestrian only streets, but making sidewalks more accessible to electric wheelchairs seems very doable.

ackfoobar 4y ago

With the infrastructure it can be. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uhx-26GfCBU Of course bikes won't be the solution for everyone, but as the saying goes, don't let perfect be the enemy of good.

justinator 4y ago

> Not in winter, they aren't. Like most difficulties with cycling in the cities, the most dangerous part of it are sharing resources with cars. Cycling in the winter isn't so bad if properly dressed. Even now, the cycle paths get plowed before the roads. > Also, bikes (especially individual bikes) are not very compatible with many types of disabilities. We really should keep accessibility in mind when working on Urban areas. Totally agree. Most bike infrastructure works well for those with disabilities. The coming goal with bike friendly cities is livable cities for all, and not one that's built for cars first, and people second. It's the same sharedd evil conspiracy agenda. ;)

justinator 4y ago
s/coming goal/common goal/ my apologies.

JustSomeNobody 4y ago

> Not in winter, they aren't. Thunderstorms in Florida, also. Or even just the humidity. If you want to go anywhere looking like you just jumped fully clothed into a swimming pool, sure, go for it.

lucideer 4y ago

Both of your counter examples are minority cases. Motorised vehicles (both public transit & other private/vocational/individual) are a fantastic utility, and one we should never get rid of. The problem is scale: bikes can absolutely supplant a significant portion of current motorised urban transit.

moooo99 4y ago

> Yes, there are always a few folks who will pull their bikes out in 0°F (-18°C) and go out on icy roads, but they are a vast minority. And a lot of cities in the world experience those kinds of temperatures. The majority of population centers are outside of regions with that kind of low temperatures. Even if the temperatures get that low, its usually not for the majority of the year. And cities with well planned out and maintained cycling infrastructure do demonstrate that cycling even with low temperatures is a feasible mode of transportation. > Also, bikes (especially individual bikes) are not very compatible with many types of disabilities. Getting rid of cars that don't _need_ to be in a city makes space for cars that do need to be there. Very few people who are seriously debating this topic are for banning every kind of motorized vehicle outright. Obviously there are many cases where cars/trucks are the only feasible/best option, even in a city. Emergency vehicles, delivery trucks or vehicles for people with limited mobility. > We really should keep accessibility in mind when working on Urban areas. Cars are incredibly expensive. They are even more expensive if you have special needs (that is, if your disability even allows you to drive at all). Pedestrianized and bike friendly areas, that often go hand in hand with well designed public transportation infrastructure, are far more accessible than car-centric planning ever could be.

mrwh 4y ago
Indeed! We already have dedicated parking spaces for the disabled. Keep those, get rid of all the others.
mattmaroon 4y ago
Umm no they’re not. And the ones that are just have the opposite problem half the year. Very few cities are in a climate where all but the most hardcore people will want to bike more than half the time. Go down the list of American cities by population. NYC, Chicago, Philly, etc. Not biking in the cold months. Megacities in Texas, Cali, Florida, AZ: not biking in hot months. This might work for Honolulu or San Diego and that’s about it, even if you completely disregard the 50% of the population that couldn’t ride a bike in any weather due to being old, injured, obese, etc. It’s preposterous to think this is an actual solution. Getting rid of cars necessitates some other motorized form of transport from which you can’t easily fall and get injured.

thescriptkiddie 4y ago

Cycling in the winter is fine, actually. Bikes cope with snow and ice better than cars, and the physical exertion keeps you warmer than you would be on foot.

dominotw 4y ago
> and the physical exertion keeps you warmer than you would be on foot. Only if you are not sweating. Once you sweat its game over. You are probably thinking of very short pre sweating distances. Only way to bike moderate to long distance is to dress in layers and shed layers as you get warm and let the moisture get out. You also need moisture wicking base layers and moisture expelling mid layer.
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rco8786 4y ago

Not in summer either. Nobody wants to show up to their destination a sweaty mess.

stingrae 4y ago
hence ebikes.
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scarier 4y ago

I would argue that various forms of cycles (going well beyond the UCI definition of a bicycle, but still using common components powered primarily by a human) are much more compatible with disabilities than cars are. I've seen both double-arm and double-leg amputees cycling, among others.

ndsipa_pomu 4y ago
Cycles (bikes, trikes etc) are sometimes more compatible with disabilities. As they support your weight, they can be better for people with standing/walking issues. Some sight issues can be dangerous for driving, but manageable for cycling (e.g. I'm a bit short sighted which is fine for cycling as if something is too blurry, I can just go closer to it if I need to read something). The ability to come to a stop safely in almost any scenario means that some sufferers of epilepsy can safely cycle whilst being unable or not allowed to drive (here in the UK, I think there's a time limit of something like three years since your last attack).

sirmarksalot 4y ago

A system that requires nearly everyone to drive cars is not compatible with disabilities. If fewer people drive, it frees up road space for people who actually need to drive, as opposed to people who drive because it's the easiest way to get around. Also note that cars are often not a good fit for many kinds of disabilities. Public transit works much better with only minor modifications.

agumonkey 4y ago

Then bike in warm days and other means during winter.

teucris 4y ago

> Also, bikes (especially individual bikes) are not very compatible with many types of disabilities. We really should keep accessibility in mind when working on Urban areas. That’s what accessibility-oriented public transit is for. The goal isn’t to replace all transit with bikes; it’s to reduce the dependence on cars by leveraging bikes more to make safer, healthier urban environments.

AtlasBarfed 4y ago

I lived in minnesota, five mile commute. Cold is very very doable. Ice does suck, but that's more of a tire issue. Cold and snow? Eh, bundle up and biking in winter is actually kind of fun. The cold really isn't any different than getting into a cold car in winter. The car warms up when you drive it, you warm up when you ride a bike. Rain really sucks though. I don't have a good solution for rain. What is the best for bike commuting is the lack of aggravation from driving, and knowing that basically no matter what you'll get from X to Y in a known amount of time. There's no traffic jams in bikes, at least not in the US. Oh, aside from security risk, the ability to basically ride directly to where you're going and park RIGHT THERE is the #2 best thing about biking places (#1 being the reduced stress). E-bikes should be even more amazing. I was a triathlete so I was a fit biker and wind/hills didn't bother me, but e-bikes eliminate that for the whole population. What sucks: - securing bikes, they are simply far too easy to steal. I guess in europe and big US cities there are real problems with this: tracker chips don't work, U-locks get shattered with liquid nitrogen, etc. What's nice about e-bikes is that you can get a heavier bike with a bit more security, but still, easy to drive up with van, shatter lock, take bike. - rain, already mentioned - flats are still far too common - bikes aren't really that much of a money saver if you already have a car. They help with stress, fun, exercise, but between bike tuneups and flat tires and other stuff, they aren't really that cheap. Especially once you get into panniers and racks and that type of thing. - drivers and danger in general. Bikes aren't a safe mode of transportation in the US unless you have good dedicated bike paths (Minneapolis is really really amazing for this, I never appreciated it until I moved somewhere else).

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xchip 4y ago

If you have hemorrhoids you also can't use it.

fknorangesite 4y ago

I live in a place where it is very consistently below -20C in the winter. Sure, I'm not going to bike in that (especially +snow), but you know what? Being able to do most of my intra-city travel by bicycle 75% of the year is still a big win over 0%.

post_break 4y ago

Not in summer, they aren't. Arizona, Texas, etc. I don't even ride my motorcycle in the hot months. I just wish we built more European style housing with shops on the bottom floor with housing above it, walk able city blocks, etc.

the_gastropod 4y ago

Why is driving a 2 ton car safer in icy conditions than riding a 20lb bicycle? And the disability thing: there are a wide variety of disabilities. 76% of disabled people are able to ride a bicycle [1]. Only 60% of disabled people are able to drive a car [2]. [1] https://content.tfl.gov.uk/cycling-action-plan-large-print-version.pdf https://content.tfl.gov.uk/cycling-action-plan-large-print-v... [2] https://www.bts.gov/archive/publications/freedom_to_travel/data_analysis https://www.bts.gov/archive/publications/freedom_to_travel/d...

recursive 4y ago
If a car slides a little in a corner, there's a good chance to correct it. If a bike slides a little in a corner (at least the front wheel) you are definitely going down.
- the_gastropod 4y ago
  Well, yea—the person inside the 2-ton steel cage is probably going to be fine. It's the nearby pedestrians, cyclists, houses, etc. whose safety I was interested in.

whazor 4y ago

At those very low temperatures, but also at very high hot temperatures, you are basically living like an astronaut. In that case I don't see a way around the car as well. But for disabilities, the infrastructure for bikes is much better accessibility wise. It allows for electric wheelchairs or wheelchairs with handcycles in front. The car roads are often too dangerous or require the ability to drive, whereas a bike path is low-key and allows all kinds of slower traffic.

nedt 4y ago

But for those conditions a car also isn't a good fit. I've seen it in Sweden, where they have snow or ice on the roads for months and they drive Ski-Doos instead. Haven't seen a self driving one yet.