5 ms·

What can men do differently to make the system work better so that online dating wasn't a disaster for most men?

Zigurd 4y ago
Stop thinking there is a set of KPIs they can attain to get women to think they are worth spending time with. Think different: Stop listening to Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson, etc. They told you which KPIs will get you women. They won't. Stop thinking you can convince women, or anyone who isn't a libertarian that libertarianism isn't a naive infantile philosophy. There is way too much to list. Just stop all of it. Everything that goes with those surface symptoms is poison. Women can smell the faintest whiff of it. It makes you ugly clear through to the bone, no matter how buff you are. Being a gym rat probably makes it worse.
- dijit 4y ago
  Now I understand what you were referring to. I should attempt to convince you that negative messages ("STOP X") are not as effective for changing behaviour than actual helpful advice; for instance in personal training you are educated to always refer to the positive. IE; instead of saying "stop raising your heels" you would say, "do you see your feet move? We should try to keep them flat"- a subtle but important difference. W.R.T. comments like yours, I would advise you to instead focusing on the "don't improve your appearance, it is superficial" to instead focus on other things that men can do to meaningfully improve themselves. The majority of Feminists and the majority of Misogynists alike, agree (unfortunately) that some features of men are desirable and those typically correspond to conventional attractiveness and wealth. > Stop listening to Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson, etc. They told you which KPIs will get you women. They won't. It's not really Joe Rogan or Jordan Peterson saying that though, it's society. IIRC Jordan Petersons whole schtick was suggesting that self-improvement is necessary and that you should start small (like cleaning your room); then he goes off the rails talking about equality and equity going too far or something- but the core of the beginning is good. I haven't ever watched Joe Rogan; Andrew Tate is as much as Misandrist as a Misogynist[0] If you want to convince me otherwise I would advise (again) to inform us of what Men should actually work on to improve themselves in the eyes of Women. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHD8Jun3eUc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHD8Jun3eUc
  - Zigurd 4y ago
    [flagged]
    - dijit 4y ago
      The core thesis of your argument (that self improvement is not required) is false for two main reasons. 1) Obviously we should improve ourselves, otherwise we will be immature children for our entire lives. Maturity is growth, education is growth. To improve is human. You can successfully argue a case that the guidance from the Manosphere is harmful; but to deny self improvement is foolish beyond argument. 2) external parties are discerning. They do compare people on attributes, doesn’t matter if you agree that they’re superficial ones such as wealth and appearance, or deeper ones such as confidence (not arrogance), maturity, trustworthiness and wisdom. They are discerning on some axis. This is true for friends, business associates and of course: Romantic Partners. Regardless of sex/gender
    - nradov 4y ago
      I'm not familiar with Jordan Peterson, but I don't understand your point. Most women won't be impressed if your home has clothes on the floor and dirty dishes in the sink.
- isthisthingon99 4y ago
  OK let's see if you are qualified to have these opinions. 1. Have you dated women, as a man? 2. Are you successful in dating women which can be measured by staying power? Could you message a woman today you haven't seen in 6 months and arrange a date? 3. If I asked you to go and get a date today from a woman previously unknown to you, could you do it? If you can answer yes to all these questions, then your opinion is valuable.
  - Zigurd 4y ago
    1. Yes, but I'm not sure what you mean by "as a man." Why do you make that distinction? Why does it matter to you? 2. yes, two days ago. But I'm baffled by your criteria here. I'm not trying to qualify as a guru. The opposite really. Stop listening to dating gurus. 3. I have done, but I wonder why you would ask since it would make no difference. You are barking up the wrong tree. You still don't get it: There is no improvement you can make. Women date fat men. Women date nerdy men. Women date slobs. Women will pay for the date if you are broke. Women will listen to 2.4 seconds of you mansplaining why you have not had any luck despite a crisply made bed and however much you bench press and your BMW and decide you don't get it. That is what's wrong.
    - isthisthingon99 4y ago
      You're clearly reading things I haven't said.
    - nradov 4y ago
      This comment is just totally disconnected from reality. Sure, a minority of women are willing to date fat slobs. But all else being equal most women prefer a man who's in good shape, clean, and well groomed. Of course, that won't entirely compensate for being boring or having terrible social skills.

Stop thinking there is a set of KPIs they can attain to get women to think they are worth spending time with. Think different: Stop listening to Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson, etc. They told you which KPIs will get you women. They won't. Stop thinking you can convince women, or anyone who isn't a libertarian that libertarianism isn't a naive infantile philosophy. There is way too much to list. Just stop all of it. Everything that goes with those surface symptoms is poison. Women can smell the faintest whiff of it. It makes you ugly clear through to the bone, no matter how buff you are. Being a gym rat probably makes it worse.

dijit 4y ago
Now I understand what you were referring to. I should attempt to convince you that negative messages ("STOP X") are not as effective for changing behaviour than actual helpful advice; for instance in personal training you are educated to always refer to the positive. IE; instead of saying "stop raising your heels" you would say, "do you see your feet move? We should try to keep them flat"- a subtle but important difference. W.R.T. comments like yours, I would advise you to instead focusing on the "don't improve your appearance, it is superficial" to instead focus on other things that men can do to meaningfully improve themselves. The majority of Feminists and the majority of Misogynists alike, agree (unfortunately) that some features of men are desirable and those typically correspond to conventional attractiveness and wealth. > Stop listening to Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson, etc. They told you which KPIs will get you women. They won't. It's not really Joe Rogan or Jordan Peterson saying that though, it's society. IIRC Jordan Petersons whole schtick was suggesting that self-improvement is necessary and that you should start small (like cleaning your room); then he goes off the rails talking about equality and equity going too far or something- but the core of the beginning is good. I haven't ever watched Joe Rogan; Andrew Tate is as much as Misandrist as a Misogynist[0] If you want to convince me otherwise I would advise (again) to inform us of what Men should actually work on to improve themselves in the eyes of Women. [0]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHD8Jun3eUc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHD8Jun3eUc
- Zigurd 4y ago
  [flagged]
  - dijit 4y ago
    The core thesis of your argument (that self improvement is not required) is false for two main reasons. 1) Obviously we should improve ourselves, otherwise we will be immature children for our entire lives. Maturity is growth, education is growth. To improve is human. You can successfully argue a case that the guidance from the Manosphere is harmful; but to deny self improvement is foolish beyond argument. 2) external parties are discerning. They do compare people on attributes, doesn’t matter if you agree that they’re superficial ones such as wealth and appearance, or deeper ones such as confidence (not arrogance), maturity, trustworthiness and wisdom. They are discerning on some axis. This is true for friends, business associates and of course: Romantic Partners. Regardless of sex/gender
  - nradov 4y ago
    I'm not familiar with Jordan Peterson, but I don't understand your point. Most women won't be impressed if your home has clothes on the floor and dirty dishes in the sink.
isthisthingon99 4y ago
OK let's see if you are qualified to have these opinions. 1. Have you dated women, as a man? 2. Are you successful in dating women which can be measured by staying power? Could you message a woman today you haven't seen in 6 months and arrange a date? 3. If I asked you to go and get a date today from a woman previously unknown to you, could you do it? If you can answer yes to all these questions, then your opinion is valuable.
- Zigurd 4y ago
  1. Yes, but I'm not sure what you mean by "as a man." Why do you make that distinction? Why does it matter to you? 2. yes, two days ago. But I'm baffled by your criteria here. I'm not trying to qualify as a guru. The opposite really. Stop listening to dating gurus. 3. I have done, but I wonder why you would ask since it would make no difference. You are barking up the wrong tree. You still don't get it: There is no improvement you can make. Women date fat men. Women date nerdy men. Women date slobs. Women will pay for the date if you are broke. Women will listen to 2.4 seconds of you mansplaining why you have not had any luck despite a crisply made bed and however much you bench press and your BMW and decide you don't get it. That is what's wrong.
  - isthisthingon99 4y ago
    You're clearly reading things I haven't said.
  - nradov 4y ago
    This comment is just totally disconnected from reality. Sure, a minority of women are willing to date fat slobs. But all else being equal most women prefer a man who's in good shape, clean, and well groomed. Of course, that won't entirely compensate for being boring or having terrible social skills.