5 ms·

Let's face it: The economic, time and energy cost of the commute is WAY too much for the return to office to be justified. Average one-way commute in the US is

Let's face it: The economic, time and energy cost of the commute is WAY too much for the return to office to be justified. Average one-way commute in the US is ~30 minutes. An hour lost every day. 20 hours every month. Literally we are losing ONE DAY at the road every month. 12 days every year. And its much worse than it looks: When you commute, you don't only incur a time cost. You spend cognitive energy - you have to navigate transportation, cars, people, you have to avoid hitting another car or getting hit by a car, catch the tram at a certain time, do various things just to be able to get to the office. All of these have a cognitive cost. They burn energy and especially cost concentration. Then you have to enter the office, say hi to peopl around, settle in your desk, and start getting into the work mindset... only to be interrupted by the stand-up or whatever other practice your place has. Or maybe you will just wander around and not do much until that stand-up or meeting. ALL of these cost immensely for both people and organizations. Economic cost. Energy cost. Burnout cost. ... Compare this to the situation when working from home: You get up. Get something to eat and a cup of coffee. You sit in front of the computer. You are ready to work without all that cognitive and time cost.

ahoho 4y ago
Commuting is not so bad when public transportation is good and/or you live close to the office. I used to live a fifteen minute walk from my previous job. It was something I relished, and on days with poor weather, I just worked remotely. Now I take a subway and I can read for 20 minutes. I wonder if employers might start setting up smaller, “hybrid-first” offices in less expensive, more residential areas (eg, in the outer boroughs in Manhattan). I enjoy working from an office, but if no one comes in, the appeal is diminished.
- unity1001 4y ago
  > Commuting is not so bad when public transportation is good and/or you live close to the office. Nope. Consider the BEST case: You live NEXT DOOR to your office. You get up in the morning. You quickly grab a bite. Then prepare for ~10 minutes for going to the office. Getting out of your house, going into the next building, settling down etc all take another 10-15 minutes. And that's for people who prepare in the morning fast, walk fast, settle down fast. So its still ~1 hour lost every day. > Now I take a subway and I can read for 20 minutes. Would you sit and read for 20 minutes if you didnt have to commute? That sounds more like pulling something good out of an undesirable situation through discipline and personal talent than any benefit. Not to mention that if you actually sat and read in your own house, that 20 minutes of reading would also be totally different than reading in the subway.
  - kredd 4y ago
    It’s a bit over-optimizing for every aspect of life. I’ve been WFH for the past 2.5 years, but I didn’t mind my 20 minute commute on subway before. My previous employers were completely fine for us to work from home (bad weather, repairs, or just simple sickness) if we ever needed to, but in-office environment was fun. Not everything needs to be over-optimized to the T when you have plenty of free time in the morning.
  - ahoho 4y ago
    I appreciate the nudge to go for a walk/read—at home I can end up sitting on my couch mindlessly scrolling hackernews comments. I had to work from home consistently during the pandemic and I despised it. Once a week or so is ok, all the time is hell—I can’t bounce ideas off my colleagues or have serendipitous conversations. In fact I’ve made some not-insubstantial personal sacrifices to avoid working from home. Everyone is different.
- kodah 4y ago
  "Hybrid first" really needs to be far away from major cities. I live in San Jose; not a single new tech business should be opened here given the cost of homes and rent as well as the slim options. My last company naively went "hybrid-first" and a lot of people who weren't married to other high income earners left because they're getting financially squeezed in these metropolises.
  - unity1001 4y ago
    > given the cost of homes and rent Yes, at this point the economic value that the real estate sector extracts from the economy looks outrageous compared to the benefit it provides. They are literally crippling tech sector in places like San Francisco. Forcing them out, crippling synergy in between the organizations that happen when organizations are in close proximity to similar ones.
- dunefox 4y ago
  > Commuting is not so bad when public transportation is good and/or you live close to the office. You mean iff you can afford to live that close to your work that you can just walk in 15-20 minutes? Yeah, then it might not be bad. I still lose almost 3 hours per commute twice a week because I can only afford to live 60 km away from the capital in which I work.
  - ahoho 4y ago
    I’m a PhD in one of the highest CoL cities in the US, so I wouldn’t say I’m speaking from a position of particular financial privilege
- g9yuayon 4y ago
  The challenge of "living close to the office" is that people change jobs every few years, especially in the bay area. Unfortunately we don't change our addresses as often.
lbeltrame 4y ago
It depends on the person. For me the commute was the "moat" I built to detach my mind completely from work related matters until the next day. Personal experience matters a lot, too. I did WFH for two years in 2009-2011 and it was mostly fine. Now, although not optimal by any means, I endure my 1h 15 min commute daily. After being locked down in my house for more than 70 days in 2020 while having a very stressful work experience I could not escape from, I don't want to WFH ever again. Others may have different experience and goals.
- unity1001 4y ago
  > For me the commute was the "moat" I built to detach my mind completely from work related matters until the next day You seem to have made a positive outcome happen out of a negative situation. If there wasn't the commute, you would have built that moat through different ways without losing time every day. And the cognitive cost.
  - amrocha 4y ago
    You chose to see a negative situation where there isn't one. Having to go somewhere by itself is neither bad nor good, it's what you make out of it.
    - ergocoder 4y ago
      You missed the point of the parent comment. If you can make a positive thing out of commute, you will be better without commute. At worst, you can easily go take a bus to somewhere if commute is so important.
      - amrocha 4y ago
        No, you missed the point of my comment. A commute can be a positive thing. Not having a commute can be a negative thing. It depends on so many factors that claiming all commutes are bad is at best childish.
timthorn 4y ago
I relish the commute as the gap between personal life and work life. It allows me time to decompress and means I'm rarely thinking about the office when I get home.
- marcosdumay 4y ago
  When you end your work, get out of your home, walk for 10 minutes (settle on a route that is nice to walk), get back and start your personal hours.
- milkytron 4y ago
  The commute can optionally be replaced by other activities with a bit of diligence. Personally, I'll go for a run mid day. I know others that will go for a walk in the morning and after work. Others will perform some other task to decompress. It's all about what's knowing what's best for you. If you need to get in the car and sit in traffic to decompress, you still have that option if you WFH. But just like commuting takes energy, so does getting up and decompressing in a way that is beneficial for yourself.
  - filesystem 4y ago
    > It's all about what's knowing what's best for you. They were implying that separating home from work is what is best for them. Some people like to work from the office - you do not need to keep pushing WFH on everyone.
    - unity1001 4y ago
      You can separate work and home while working from home too. Which is something you should do when you start WFH already.
      - somehnlurker 4y ago
- newaccount2021 4y ago
ballenf 4y ago
Commute time is just one of many very large inefficiencies in modern work life. I spend much more time each day in useless meetings, filling out useless forms, digging through HR docs pages trying to find convoluted policies so I can get reimbursed for some obvious work-related expense. The challenge to getting more remote is that commuting is NOT the most wasteful aspect of most companies (even if companies bore the full cost of it).
yamtaddle 4y ago
> Or maybe you will just wander around and not do much until that stand-up or meeting. Pre-standup is for running git-log to try to remember WTF you did yesterday so you can say it in the meeting.

ahoho 4y ago

Commuting is not so bad when public transportation is good and/or you live close to the office. I used to live a fifteen minute walk from my previous job. It was something I relished, and on days with poor weather, I just worked remotely. Now I take a subway and I can read for 20 minutes. I wonder if employers might start setting up smaller, “hybrid-first” offices in less expensive, more residential areas (eg, in the outer boroughs in Manhattan). I enjoy working from an office, but if no one comes in, the appeal is diminished.

unity1001 4y ago
> Commuting is not so bad when public transportation is good and/or you live close to the office. Nope. Consider the BEST case: You live NEXT DOOR to your office. You get up in the morning. You quickly grab a bite. Then prepare for ~10 minutes for going to the office. Getting out of your house, going into the next building, settling down etc all take another 10-15 minutes. And that's for people who prepare in the morning fast, walk fast, settle down fast. So its still ~1 hour lost every day. > Now I take a subway and I can read for 20 minutes. Would you sit and read for 20 minutes if you didnt have to commute? That sounds more like pulling something good out of an undesirable situation through discipline and personal talent than any benefit. Not to mention that if you actually sat and read in your own house, that 20 minutes of reading would also be totally different than reading in the subway.
- kredd 4y ago
  It’s a bit over-optimizing for every aspect of life. I’ve been WFH for the past 2.5 years, but I didn’t mind my 20 minute commute on subway before. My previous employers were completely fine for us to work from home (bad weather, repairs, or just simple sickness) if we ever needed to, but in-office environment was fun. Not everything needs to be over-optimized to the T when you have plenty of free time in the morning.
- ahoho 4y ago
  I appreciate the nudge to go for a walk/read—at home I can end up sitting on my couch mindlessly scrolling hackernews comments. I had to work from home consistently during the pandemic and I despised it. Once a week or so is ok, all the time is hell—I can’t bounce ideas off my colleagues or have serendipitous conversations. In fact I’ve made some not-insubstantial personal sacrifices to avoid working from home. Everyone is different.
kodah 4y ago
"Hybrid first" really needs to be far away from major cities. I live in San Jose; not a single new tech business should be opened here given the cost of homes and rent as well as the slim options. My last company naively went "hybrid-first" and a lot of people who weren't married to other high income earners left because they're getting financially squeezed in these metropolises.
- unity1001 4y ago
  > given the cost of homes and rent Yes, at this point the economic value that the real estate sector extracts from the economy looks outrageous compared to the benefit it provides. They are literally crippling tech sector in places like San Francisco. Forcing them out, crippling synergy in between the organizations that happen when organizations are in close proximity to similar ones.
dunefox 4y ago
> Commuting is not so bad when public transportation is good and/or you live close to the office. You mean iff you can afford to live that close to your work that you can just walk in 15-20 minutes? Yeah, then it might not be bad. I still lose almost 3 hours per commute twice a week because I can only afford to live 60 km away from the capital in which I work.
- ahoho 4y ago
  I’m a PhD in one of the highest CoL cities in the US, so I wouldn’t say I’m speaking from a position of particular financial privilege
g9yuayon 4y ago
The challenge of "living close to the office" is that people change jobs every few years, especially in the bay area. Unfortunately we don't change our addresses as often.

lbeltrame 4y ago

It depends on the person. For me the commute was the "moat" I built to detach my mind completely from work related matters until the next day. Personal experience matters a lot, too. I did WFH for two years in 2009-2011 and it was mostly fine. Now, although not optimal by any means, I endure my 1h 15 min commute daily. After being locked down in my house for more than 70 days in 2020 while having a very stressful work experience I could not escape from, I don't want to WFH ever again. Others may have different experience and goals.

unity1001 4y ago
> For me the commute was the "moat" I built to detach my mind completely from work related matters until the next day You seem to have made a positive outcome happen out of a negative situation. If there wasn't the commute, you would have built that moat through different ways without losing time every day. And the cognitive cost.
- amrocha 4y ago
  You chose to see a negative situation where there isn't one. Having to go somewhere by itself is neither bad nor good, it's what you make out of it.
  - ergocoder 4y ago
    You missed the point of the parent comment. If you can make a positive thing out of commute, you will be better without commute. At worst, you can easily go take a bus to somewhere if commute is so important.
    - amrocha 4y ago
      No, you missed the point of my comment. A commute can be a positive thing. Not having a commute can be a negative thing. It depends on so many factors that claiming all commutes are bad is at best childish.

timthorn 4y ago

I relish the commute as the gap between personal life and work life. It allows me time to decompress and means I'm rarely thinking about the office when I get home.

marcosdumay 4y ago
When you end your work, get out of your home, walk for 10 minutes (settle on a route that is nice to walk), get back and start your personal hours.
milkytron 4y ago
The commute can optionally be replaced by other activities with a bit of diligence. Personally, I'll go for a run mid day. I know others that will go for a walk in the morning and after work. Others will perform some other task to decompress. It's all about what's knowing what's best for you. If you need to get in the car and sit in traffic to decompress, you still have that option if you WFH. But just like commuting takes energy, so does getting up and decompressing in a way that is beneficial for yourself.
- filesystem 4y ago
  > It's all about what's knowing what's best for you. They were implying that separating home from work is what is best for them. Some people like to work from the office - you do not need to keep pushing WFH on everyone.
  - unity1001 4y ago
    You can separate work and home while working from home too. Which is something you should do when you start WFH already.
    - somehnlurker 4y ago
newaccount2021 4y ago

ballenf 4y ago

Commute time is just one of many very large inefficiencies in modern work life. I spend much more time each day in useless meetings, filling out useless forms, digging through HR docs pages trying to find convoluted policies so I can get reimbursed for some obvious work-related expense. The challenge to getting more remote is that commuting is NOT the most wasteful aspect of most companies (even if companies bore the full cost of it).

yamtaddle 4y ago

> Or maybe you will just wander around and not do much until that stand-up or meeting. Pre-standup is for running git-log to try to remember WTF you did yesterday so you can say it in the meeting.