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Truth is a significant portion of employees, in my experience, advocate for work from home because they want the chance to slack off. P.S. Someone has to say t

Truth is a significant portion of employees, in my experience, advocate for work from home because they want the chance to slack off. P.S. Someone has to say this.

granshaw 4y ago
Truth is most humans are only capable of 4 hours of deep work a day, even less if some of that was really mentally taxing work such as debugging or figuring out nasty trade offs involving multiple codebases, domains, and tools P.S. Someone has to say this.
- kranke155 4y ago
  This is super important. I am often more productive at home because I get the change to recharge.
EncomLab 4y ago
In my experience, the only people who "look behind doors" are those who stand behind them. If you have time to determine who among your co-workers is slacking you either do not have enough work to fill your own job description or should be in HR.
marcinzm 4y ago
And a significant portion of being in the office isn't actually doing work but pretending to since management often values that more than actually getting work done.
dleslie 4y ago
As long as they deliver on schedules they commit to and are agreed to then it's not a problem to have down time. Even when I worked in an office I would take long walks or leave early, because a rested and happy mind is a productive mind.
NAHWheatCracker 4y ago
I agree with you, but I'll also put in that some people want to slack off because of their managers' discourage them. That's my situation, at least.
tjpnz 4y ago
I can slack off just fine in the office.
Ensorceled 4y ago
This is the problem with pretty much all of these articles. Some employees ARE more productive. Some are just as a productive but are happier because they have no commute. Some are LESS productive because they need the team structure. Some are less productive because they can get away with goofing off. All of these things are true and they might all be true within a single team.
- lelanthran 4y ago
  > All of these things are true and they might all be true within a single team. Might even be true for a single person at different times of the week.
  - martin_a 4y ago
    > Might even be true for a single person at different times of the week. Here I am, sitting in the office, getting nothing done because I had a stressful weekend. Should have stayed at home, cooked something nice for lunch and slept an hour. Would probably have been better for my productivity, but corporate thinks it's better when people are present.
- petra 4y ago
  Is there a way to provide the team structure online? Who does that well? What should be a good starting point researching this?
  - liveoneggs 4y ago
    get into your chat room and start typing, freely mix on-topic and off-topic talk, reply to every message you can, ask questions about emails and tickets, talk about what you're doing right now, ask questions about other projects
  - Ensorceled 4y ago
    Standard scrum accountability. Everybody says good morning to the team when then the start their day. Daily stand-ups. Weekly 1-1s. These are all pretty standard but become critical remote. I have informal 1-1s to go over problems and promote jumping on a call with another dev if things are going sideways. Often our daily scrums end with some developer telling another: "Ok, I'll call you in 5 to go over that" which is a good sign. As a manager it's more work, I can't just drop in on someone I know is struggling and ask how things are going and get them to show what that thing they are working on and then just let that conversation evolve ... I need to be more explicit and often more confrontational.
ivan_gammel 4y ago
That's a reasonable desire and should not be punishable. Did you know that in Germany it is not a criminal offense to escape from prison? If someone can remain productive while having a good time during working hours, that's probably because they use that time to recharge and maintain their productivity. One of the biggest sins of managers is to try to over-optimize the team performance by having more control.
SkipperCat 4y ago
Our world is set up with rules to stop the minority of people who can't be trusted to not abuse the system. If everyone could be trusted, we'd have no locks on doors.
AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago
Full honesty: I slack off anyway, I'd just rather not have to commute to do it. If they had a problem with my output they'd have spoken to me or fired me by now.
CuriouslyC 4y ago
People are slacking the same amount at the office, they just have to work harder to hide it.
thefz 4y ago
Consider this: - Some kind of work is measurable. It can be measured in person as well as from remote. - With around 12 years of experience working in an office, I can guarantee you that 100% of the staff is not working 100% of the time. Maybe 60-70% ish. Why loom around in the office doing nothing when you can be at home and take care of yourself, your pets, your loved ones or cook a healthy meal, and so on? - WFH is just taking back the time we devoted to work which is not work related such as commuting.
UnpossibleJim 4y ago
I just have to ask, did you guys (non exclusive) not work with slackers in the office, pre work from home? Maybe it was just the places I worked but there were plenty of people who didn't produce that were in the office all day long. And the people who produced are still producing while they work from home, at least in my experience. Some people are just going to look at cat videos all day, on their phone or on their computer. I just don't want to share an "open office floor space" with them while I'm being productive =/
- kranke155 4y ago
  Thank you. Not only that, I think there are people in my office who would underdeliver because they felt the need to be productive all the time instead of thinking about it, doing four hours of research and doing it right in an hour, they kept doing “busy work” all day.
tharne 4y ago
> Truth is a significant portion of employees, in my experience, advocate for work from home because they want the chance to slack off. You don't need to be WFH to slack off. People have been slacking off in offices since the office was invented.
- DiggyJohnson 4y ago
  Yes, but as someone who has struggled with discipline in both environments, it is a relative comparison: it’s easier to slack off at home than at the office. Whether and how much employees should be given the leniency to slack off is a different question.
  - pnutjam 4y ago
    No, it's just a different skill set.
    - DiggyJohnson 4y ago
      What is a different skill set? If you're referring to the discipline needed to stay productive at the office versus at home, I don't think I see how they could not be related - in my case, closely related.
      - pnutjam 4y ago
        Slacking off at work vs slacking off at home. I've seen people very skilled at both, but it's a different skillset.
suoduandao2 4y ago
Yes, but when people slack off in the office, they generally do so by engaging someone else in conversation. So slacking off in the office is ruins two people's productivity as opposed to one. Making it harder to slack off feels virtuous, but it's like criminalizing drugs to combat organized crime.
AlwaysRock 4y ago
When you say slack off you mean what? I deliver at the same level as I have when working in an office. I also get to do house hold chores, exercise, and spend time with my dog during the day. Taking regular short breaks during the day to do these things takes about as much time as taking regular short break in the office to go get a snack or take a lap around the building or going to lunch. "Slacking off" is anything other than being tied to the computer for 8 hours a day?
kranke155 4y ago
That’s true but I think the current working hours are not for everyone. Basically I don’t consider taking breaks to be slacking off. We’ve evolved into brain work, not hand labour, and we’ve kept the same hours. My impression is that at the end of a week at the office in london I was beyond exhausted, and I could just barely recover before coming back Monday. Now I work shorter hours, yes, and some might consider it slacking off (if they could watch it over a webcam). But I eat much better, feel much better, and don’t feel the need to get trashed over the weekend to recover. Even in the office I would often take breaks to breathe again because I often felt the environment was a pressure cooker, I would go to the bathroom, go to the shop, find some excuse to eat. In my industry (advertising) overwork and burnout is incredibly common unfortunately. So I personally don’t see it as slacking off. I know a lot of IT folk who don’t work as hard as most people in my industry and they get paid much better.
echlebek 4y ago
People already have plenty of chances to slack off at offices. This is a complete non-argument.
wbsss4412 4y ago
I half agree, though I’ve seen plenty of people on Facebook/YouTube/shopping sites at every office I’ve worked in while on the clock, not to mention just goofing off with coworkers talking about whatever subject. When I’m at home I find it much easier to create a distraction free environment without the noise and uneasiness of someone looking over my shoulder.

Truth is a significant portion of employees, in my experience, advocate for work from home because they want the chance to slack off. P.S. Someone has to say this.

granshaw 4y ago

Truth is most humans are only capable of 4 hours of deep work a day, even less if some of that was really mentally taxing work such as debugging or figuring out nasty trade offs involving multiple codebases, domains, and tools P.S. Someone has to say this.

kranke155 4y ago
This is super important. I am often more productive at home because I get the change to recharge.

EncomLab 4y ago

In my experience, the only people who "look behind doors" are those who stand behind them. If you have time to determine who among your co-workers is slacking you either do not have enough work to fill your own job description or should be in HR.

marcinzm 4y ago

And a significant portion of being in the office isn't actually doing work but pretending to since management often values that more than actually getting work done.

dleslie 4y ago

As long as they deliver on schedules they commit to and are agreed to then it's not a problem to have down time. Even when I worked in an office I would take long walks or leave early, because a rested and happy mind is a productive mind.

NAHWheatCracker 4y ago

I agree with you, but I'll also put in that some people want to slack off because of their managers' discourage them. That's my situation, at least.

tjpnz 4y ago

I can slack off just fine in the office.

Ensorceled 4y ago

This is the problem with pretty much all of these articles. Some employees ARE more productive. Some are just as a productive but are happier because they have no commute. Some are LESS productive because they need the team structure. Some are less productive because they can get away with goofing off. All of these things are true and they might all be true within a single team.

lelanthran 4y ago
> All of these things are true and they might all be true within a single team. Might even be true for a single person at different times of the week.
- martin_a 4y ago
  > Might even be true for a single person at different times of the week. Here I am, sitting in the office, getting nothing done because I had a stressful weekend. Should have stayed at home, cooked something nice for lunch and slept an hour. Would probably have been better for my productivity, but corporate thinks it's better when people are present.
petra 4y ago
Is there a way to provide the team structure online? Who does that well? What should be a good starting point researching this?
- liveoneggs 4y ago
  get into your chat room and start typing, freely mix on-topic and off-topic talk, reply to every message you can, ask questions about emails and tickets, talk about what you're doing right now, ask questions about other projects
- Ensorceled 4y ago
  Standard scrum accountability. Everybody says good morning to the team when then the start their day. Daily stand-ups. Weekly 1-1s. These are all pretty standard but become critical remote. I have informal 1-1s to go over problems and promote jumping on a call with another dev if things are going sideways. Often our daily scrums end with some developer telling another: "Ok, I'll call you in 5 to go over that" which is a good sign. As a manager it's more work, I can't just drop in on someone I know is struggling and ask how things are going and get them to show what that thing they are working on and then just let that conversation evolve ... I need to be more explicit and often more confrontational.

ivan_gammel 4y ago

That's a reasonable desire and should not be punishable. Did you know that in Germany it is not a criminal offense to escape from prison? If someone can remain productive while having a good time during working hours, that's probably because they use that time to recharge and maintain their productivity. One of the biggest sins of managers is to try to over-optimize the team performance by having more control.

SkipperCat 4y ago

Our world is set up with rules to stop the minority of people who can't be trusted to not abuse the system. If everyone could be trusted, we'd have no locks on doors.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 4y ago

Full honesty: I slack off anyway, I'd just rather not have to commute to do it. If they had a problem with my output they'd have spoken to me or fired me by now.

CuriouslyC 4y ago

People are slacking the same amount at the office, they just have to work harder to hide it.

thefz 4y ago

Consider this: - Some kind of work is measurable. It can be measured in person as well as from remote. - With around 12 years of experience working in an office, I can guarantee you that 100% of the staff is not working 100% of the time. Maybe 60-70% ish. Why loom around in the office doing nothing when you can be at home and take care of yourself, your pets, your loved ones or cook a healthy meal, and so on? - WFH is just taking back the time we devoted to work which is not work related such as commuting.

UnpossibleJim 4y ago

I just have to ask, did you guys (non exclusive) not work with slackers in the office, pre work from home? Maybe it was just the places I worked but there were plenty of people who didn't produce that were in the office all day long. And the people who produced are still producing while they work from home, at least in my experience. Some people are just going to look at cat videos all day, on their phone or on their computer. I just don't want to share an "open office floor space" with them while I'm being productive =/

kranke155 4y ago
Thank you. Not only that, I think there are people in my office who would underdeliver because they felt the need to be productive all the time instead of thinking about it, doing four hours of research and doing it right in an hour, they kept doing “busy work” all day.

tharne 4y ago

> Truth is a significant portion of employees, in my experience, advocate for work from home because they want the chance to slack off. You don't need to be WFH to slack off. People have been slacking off in offices since the office was invented.

DiggyJohnson 4y ago
Yes, but as someone who has struggled with discipline in both environments, it is a relative comparison: it’s easier to slack off at home than at the office. Whether and how much employees should be given the leniency to slack off is a different question.
- pnutjam 4y ago
  No, it's just a different skill set.
  - DiggyJohnson 4y ago
    What is a different skill set? If you're referring to the discipline needed to stay productive at the office versus at home, I don't think I see how they could not be related - in my case, closely related.
    - pnutjam 4y ago
      Slacking off at work vs slacking off at home. I've seen people very skilled at both, but it's a different skillset.

suoduandao2 4y ago

Yes, but when people slack off in the office, they generally do so by engaging someone else in conversation. So slacking off in the office is ruins two people's productivity as opposed to one. Making it harder to slack off feels virtuous, but it's like criminalizing drugs to combat organized crime.

AlwaysRock 4y ago

When you say slack off you mean what? I deliver at the same level as I have when working in an office. I also get to do house hold chores, exercise, and spend time with my dog during the day. Taking regular short breaks during the day to do these things takes about as much time as taking regular short break in the office to go get a snack or take a lap around the building or going to lunch. "Slacking off" is anything other than being tied to the computer for 8 hours a day?

kranke155 4y ago

That’s true but I think the current working hours are not for everyone. Basically I don’t consider taking breaks to be slacking off. We’ve evolved into brain work, not hand labour, and we’ve kept the same hours. My impression is that at the end of a week at the office in london I was beyond exhausted, and I could just barely recover before coming back Monday. Now I work shorter hours, yes, and some might consider it slacking off (if they could watch it over a webcam). But I eat much better, feel much better, and don’t feel the need to get trashed over the weekend to recover. Even in the office I would often take breaks to breathe again because I often felt the environment was a pressure cooker, I would go to the bathroom, go to the shop, find some excuse to eat. In my industry (advertising) overwork and burnout is incredibly common unfortunately. So I personally don’t see it as slacking off. I know a lot of IT folk who don’t work as hard as most people in my industry and they get paid much better.

echlebek 4y ago

People already have plenty of chances to slack off at offices. This is a complete non-argument.

wbsss4412 4y ago

I half agree, though I’ve seen plenty of people on Facebook/YouTube/shopping sites at every office I’ve worked in while on the clock, not to mention just goofing off with coworkers talking about whatever subject. When I’m at home I find it much easier to create a distraction free environment without the noise and uneasiness of someone looking over my shoulder.