4 ms·

I've been watching his YouTube videos on developing the LibJS and LibWeb components. They are interesting and show that this kind of thing can be done. As a la

by rhdunn 4y ago

I've been watching his YouTube videos on developing the LibJS and LibWeb components. They are interesting and show that this kind of thing can be done. As a larger point, it is important to have multiple web stacks so that no one player can dictate what the web should look like, or gate access through that stack. Having this new stack grow to the point where it is becoming a viable alternative is great to see.

ArrayBoundCheck 4y ago
What does noone can dictate mean? Google dictates it and I've ran into many many sites that doesn't function with firefox or anything other than chrome
- heywire 4y ago
  Got any concrete examples? I hear this a lot, but have never experienced it. I’ve been using Firefox as my primary desktop browser for years now. I can’t think of any website that didn’t function. But maybe I encountered one and just thought the site was down?
  - LeFantome 4y ago
    More than once I have spent precious time filling out some form or going through some wizard only to find that I cannot “submit” or that validation is failing on some field or other in Firefox. Switching to a Chromium based browser works. I know it has happened to me at my bank. I cannot recall exactly where else. Reservation systems? A couple of travel approval sites I think ( during COVID ).
  - bityard 4y ago
    In my case: several financial institutions that I have accounts with and lots of enterprise apps and gear with web UIs either break silently, have certain functions that don't work, or block with an error telling you to use a supported browser. (If they're nice, they even tell you which ones are supported.) For a while, Slack didn't support all features on Firefox despite the technology being there, I don't know if this is still the case.
    - smarnach 4y ago
      Please report this kind of bug on webcompat.com. It's often possible to get them fixed.
  - bar8uyr 4y ago
    Shopify admin is one (but also one that's better to just not use if you have that option)
  - eitland 4y ago
    The version of Unit 4 that we use at work only works in Chrome. That said, lately, that particular thing has been the only one that I need to use that outright doesn't work. I think a number of Google technologies are slower in Firefox on purpose, but I just avoid them and keep telling competition authorities about their abuse of power. Sooner or later they will get caught.
  - gitgud 4y ago
    Godaddy complains with other browsers... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32093987 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32093987
    - heywire 4y ago
      Reading that thread, it sounded like OPs issue was more with an extension blocking something than the browser, but I’ll admit, I do not use GoDaddy, so I haven’t experienced it first hand.
  - dotancohen 4y ago
    The Hebrew language Nespresso site pops up a browser dialogue "you have unsaved changes" every time one tries to browse to another page. The dev team is aware of it, but "the site only supports Google Chrome" so they don't fix it. https://www.nespresso.com/il/he/ https://www.nespresso.com/il/he/
cwt137 4y ago
I've been watching his videos too for the last 6mo or so. If you like them, you should watch his friend's videos on SerenityOS as well, Linus Groh [1]. He does a lot of stuff on LibJS and LibWeb libraries. I think he is the lead developer for those because every month when Andreas does the monthly summary video of changes in the OS, he defers to Linus to talk about the browser changes. 1) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC84u7JhM9EIAYzyjdf6cBbA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC84u7JhM9EIAYzyjdf6cBbA
masklinn 4y ago
> As a larger point, it is important to have multiple web stacks so that no one player can dictate what the web should look like, or gate access through that stack. That strikes me as a pretty naive view. If you y've got a webstack with >90% market share, you effectively have one webstack which dictates what the web should look like. Because most devs will only test for it (best ROI) and most users will switch to it when their ability to use the web on other stacks starts degrading.
- aftbit 4y ago
  This is what nearly happened with IE, except Firefox then later Chrome managed to displace it to some extent. Now it would be likely to happen with Chromium based browsers if not for Mobile Safari being an important target as well.
  - masklinn 4y ago
    > This is what nearly happened with IE, except Firefox then later Chrome managed to displace it to some extent. It took MS sleeping on it for several years and the entire web taking off like a rocket for that to happen. Not to mention “full web” mobile expectations. It took cataclysmic disruptions in the space to even have a chance if breaking IE’s monopoly.
  - iopq 4y ago
    It's already happened A website I use said I need to use their Chrome add-on to automate some info gathering stuff. But I use Firefox?
    - Underphil 4y ago
      In all fairness, that's one example. There's probably some outdated stuff that still requires IE.
  - girvo 4y ago
    Chrome displaced it purely from the huge marketing power of Google, being the search engine the world over. By putting a "use chrome" message into Google Search, they got the word out in a way that no other browser vendor could ever hope to do. I'm not hopeful that it can ever be replicated. That said, I will always continue to use browsers other than Chrome, so at least selfishly I'm excited about projects like this!

by rhdunn 4y ago

ArrayBoundCheck 4y ago

What does noone can dictate mean? Google dictates it and I've ran into many many sites that doesn't function with firefox or anything other than chrome

heywire 4y ago
Got any concrete examples? I hear this a lot, but have never experienced it. I’ve been using Firefox as my primary desktop browser for years now. I can’t think of any website that didn’t function. But maybe I encountered one and just thought the site was down?
- LeFantome 4y ago
  More than once I have spent precious time filling out some form or going through some wizard only to find that I cannot “submit” or that validation is failing on some field or other in Firefox. Switching to a Chromium based browser works. I know it has happened to me at my bank. I cannot recall exactly where else. Reservation systems? A couple of travel approval sites I think ( during COVID ).
- bityard 4y ago
  In my case: several financial institutions that I have accounts with and lots of enterprise apps and gear with web UIs either break silently, have certain functions that don't work, or block with an error telling you to use a supported browser. (If they're nice, they even tell you which ones are supported.) For a while, Slack didn't support all features on Firefox despite the technology being there, I don't know if this is still the case.
  - smarnach 4y ago
    Please report this kind of bug on webcompat.com. It's often possible to get them fixed.
- bar8uyr 4y ago
  Shopify admin is one (but also one that's better to just not use if you have that option)
- eitland 4y ago
  The version of Unit 4 that we use at work only works in Chrome. That said, lately, that particular thing has been the only one that I need to use that outright doesn't work. I think a number of Google technologies are slower in Firefox on purpose, but I just avoid them and keep telling competition authorities about their abuse of power. Sooner or later they will get caught.
- gitgud 4y ago
  Godaddy complains with other browsers... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32093987 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32093987
  - heywire 4y ago
    Reading that thread, it sounded like OPs issue was more with an extension blocking something than the browser, but I’ll admit, I do not use GoDaddy, so I haven’t experienced it first hand.
- dotancohen 4y ago
  The Hebrew language Nespresso site pops up a browser dialogue "you have unsaved changes" every time one tries to browse to another page. The dev team is aware of it, but "the site only supports Google Chrome" so they don't fix it. https://www.nespresso.com/il/he/ https://www.nespresso.com/il/he/

cwt137 4y ago

I've been watching his videos too for the last 6mo or so. If you like them, you should watch his friend's videos on SerenityOS as well, Linus Groh [1]. He does a lot of stuff on LibJS and LibWeb libraries. I think he is the lead developer for those because every month when Andreas does the monthly summary video of changes in the OS, he defers to Linus to talk about the browser changes. 1) https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC84u7JhM9EIAYzyjdf6cBbA https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC84u7JhM9EIAYzyjdf6cBbA

masklinn 4y ago

> As a larger point, it is important to have multiple web stacks so that no one player can dictate what the web should look like, or gate access through that stack. That strikes me as a pretty naive view. If you y've got a webstack with >90% market share, you effectively have one webstack which dictates what the web should look like. Because most devs will only test for it (best ROI) and most users will switch to it when their ability to use the web on other stacks starts degrading.

aftbit 4y ago
This is what nearly happened with IE, except Firefox then later Chrome managed to displace it to some extent. Now it would be likely to happen with Chromium based browsers if not for Mobile Safari being an important target as well.
- masklinn 4y ago
  > This is what nearly happened with IE, except Firefox then later Chrome managed to displace it to some extent. It took MS sleeping on it for several years and the entire web taking off like a rocket for that to happen. Not to mention “full web” mobile expectations. It took cataclysmic disruptions in the space to even have a chance if breaking IE’s monopoly.
- iopq 4y ago
  It's already happened A website I use said I need to use their Chrome add-on to automate some info gathering stuff. But I use Firefox?
  - Underphil 4y ago
    In all fairness, that's one example. There's probably some outdated stuff that still requires IE.
- girvo 4y ago
  Chrome displaced it purely from the huge marketing power of Google, being the search engine the world over. By putting a "use chrome" message into Google Search, they got the word out in a way that no other browser vendor could ever hope to do. I'm not hopeful that it can ever be replicated. That said, I will always continue to use browsers other than Chrome, so at least selfishly I'm excited about projects like this!