10 ms·

Compared to Europe there is more upside and downside risk in the US. You can earn more but you are more likely to be financially wiped out if you get cancer or

Compared to Europe there is more upside and downside risk in the US. You can earn more but you are more likely to be financially wiped out if you get cancer or have an accident (high medical costs). Most countries in Europe have more social support built in at every level, not just healthcare, so its unusual to go from living comfortably to being on the street. Some argue the US way is good (more downward mobility is necessary for a lot of upward mobility) but it also leads to a lot of survivorship bias. The people who fall off do not get talked about much

blackhaz 4y ago
I live in London. Developed a persistent headache which goes on for a few months already. Just got appointment to a neurologist for August 2023. Today is September 2022. Although, is UK in Europe?...
- badpun 4y ago
  Yep, that's how the coveted socialized health care system looks like in practice in many European countries. Sometimes the queue is short and you can use it. Sometimes it's not and you go to a private doctor instead. Sometimes, the nececessary drug is refunded and you get it for nearly free. Other times it's not and you buy it out of pocket. If it happens to be expensive, it will bankrupt your family just the same (or, more often, just die instead, because you don't want to do that to your family for an off chance of surviving the illness).
  - brnt 4y ago
    > Yep, that's how the coveted socialized health care system looks like in practice in many European countries. The NHS really stands out negatively in Europe, no matter how great the Brits think it is. Unfortunately, English-speakers living where they do, this is not really voiced in the English press. Out of all of the Anglophonic world, yes, the NHS is probably the best.
    - nabogh 4y ago
      Australian healthcare is pretty good. NHS sounds much worse to me but I've only heard horror stories.
  - wbsss4412 4y ago
    Meanwhile my friend here I’m the US has to wait until may 2023 to see a dermatologist. Long wait times exist in the US as well, we just like to pretend that it’s a socialized medicine thing.
    - credit_guy 4y ago
      Yes, but it's most likely a top dermatologist. There are lots of dermatologists around. For the first visit, it's normal to have to wait one or two months. Almost one year is definitely not normal.
      - wbsss4412 4y ago
        > Yes, but it's most likely a top dermatologist. It is not. It is a dermatologist. > Almost one year is definitely not normal. I would like to believe that too, but I don’t know what to tell you.
        SamReidHughes 4y ago
        This is not the experience of my family members.
        wbsss4412 4y ago
        Never said it was typical, only that it exists. When these conversations come up, people always trot out the wait time line, and it’s true, wait times are generally on the lower end for the US compared to other countries. However, they are not zero. Depending on the need, the region, and the time, you have to wait in America, just the same as in other countries. Useful reference point: https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/242e3c8c-en/1/3/2/index.html?itemId=/content/publication/242e3c8c-en&_csp_=e90031be7ce6b03025f09a0c506286b0&itemIGO=oecd&itemContentType=book https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/242e3c8c-en/1/3/2/index....
        p1esk 4y ago
        How many dermatologists have you called before giving up and agreeing to wait until May? In my experience it takes 3-5 calls to find someone willing to see me within a few days.
  - thephyber 4y ago
    Anecdote: my friend in Silicon Valley is having debilitating headaches and her soonest (employer sponsored health insurance) neurologist appointment was 4 months away. “The” US health care system in practice is extremely broken unless you have a concierge doctor or you donated enough to get your name on a hospital wing. Rural areas of the US are losing access as hospitals have been closing and urban/suburban areas have seen hospital consolidation. Our system is not an envy of the world, despite the marketing that makes so many people think that.
- Scoundreller 4y ago
  No longer, because 350 million pounds a week was being diverted from the NHS into Brussels.
  - dna_polymerase 4y ago
    According to a big red bus.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - beardyw 4y ago
    The pitch was the other way around, that £350 million going into the EU (if you believe that figure) could go to the NHS (it won't).
- quickthrower2 4y ago
  Sounds typical UK. But, how much is your health insurance costing, and could you land a $500,000 bill if you go to the wrong hospital?
  - blackhaz 4y ago
    Costs nothing if I'm dead, I guess.
whiddershins 4y ago
No, if you have health insurance this isn't true. None of this is how it actually is in the US. Outside of addicts and the severely mentally ill it is rare to "fall off" middle class status.
- molotovh 4y ago
  And for the kind of jobs we're talking about (outside of maybe start-ups that haven't got benefits figured out quite yet), the commercial insurance offered by employers tends to be quite good. As a personal anecdote, my wife has a union job and I do not. She switched to my healthcare insurance because the benefits were better than what the union offered. (In a pure analysis, my job is technically less secure, but realistically I am in no danger of losing it. When correctly managed, increased risks yield increased rewards.)
- thephyber 4y ago
  note this comment is likely very misleading. > According to a study published in February 2019, about 530,000 bankruptcies filed annually are because of debt accrued due to a medical illness. The study found that even the Obama administration’s landmark Affordable Care Act (known as Obamacare) has failed to change the proportion of bankruptcies caused by medical debts, with poor health insurance cited as one of the main culprits.[1] 530k households into medical bankruptcy annually from medical costs in a country with 123,600k households. In 30 years, that would be more than 10% of the country, on average. [1] https://theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/14/health-insurance-medical-bankruptcy-debt https://theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/14/health-insurance...
  - TMWNN 4y ago
    >> According to a study published in February 2019, about 530,000 bankruptcies filed annually are because of debt accrued due to a medical illness. That's the same bogus study that Elizabeth Warren has been pushing for years, which attributes any bankruptcy in which medical bills are involved to mean that medical bills caused the bankruptcy. Only 4% of US bankruptcies are because of medical bills <https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2018/03/26/the-truth-about-medical-bankruptcies/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2018/0...>. A tipoff that [insert large percentage here] of bankruptcies aren't actually because of medical costs is that only 6% of bankruptcies by those without health insurance are because of that cause. The biggest cause of bankruptcies is lack of income, which health insurance doesn't affect.

blackhaz 4y ago

I live in London. Developed a persistent headache which goes on for a few months already. Just got appointment to a neurologist for August 2023. Today is September 2022. Although, is UK in Europe?...

badpun 4y ago
Yep, that's how the coveted socialized health care system looks like in practice in many European countries. Sometimes the queue is short and you can use it. Sometimes it's not and you go to a private doctor instead. Sometimes, the nececessary drug is refunded and you get it for nearly free. Other times it's not and you buy it out of pocket. If it happens to be expensive, it will bankrupt your family just the same (or, more often, just die instead, because you don't want to do that to your family for an off chance of surviving the illness).
- brnt 4y ago
  > Yep, that's how the coveted socialized health care system looks like in practice in many European countries. The NHS really stands out negatively in Europe, no matter how great the Brits think it is. Unfortunately, English-speakers living where they do, this is not really voiced in the English press. Out of all of the Anglophonic world, yes, the NHS is probably the best.
  - nabogh 4y ago
    Australian healthcare is pretty good. NHS sounds much worse to me but I've only heard horror stories.
- wbsss4412 4y ago
  Meanwhile my friend here I’m the US has to wait until may 2023 to see a dermatologist. Long wait times exist in the US as well, we just like to pretend that it’s a socialized medicine thing.
  - credit_guy 4y ago
    Yes, but it's most likely a top dermatologist. There are lots of dermatologists around. For the first visit, it's normal to have to wait one or two months. Almost one year is definitely not normal.
    - wbsss4412 4y ago
      > Yes, but it's most likely a top dermatologist. It is not. It is a dermatologist. > Almost one year is definitely not normal. I would like to believe that too, but I don’t know what to tell you.
      - SamReidHughes 4y ago
        This is not the experience of my family members.
        wbsss4412 4y ago
        Never said it was typical, only that it exists. When these conversations come up, people always trot out the wait time line, and it’s true, wait times are generally on the lower end for the US compared to other countries. However, they are not zero. Depending on the need, the region, and the time, you have to wait in America, just the same as in other countries. Useful reference point: https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/242e3c8c-en/1/3/2/index.html?itemId=/content/publication/242e3c8c-en&_csp_=e90031be7ce6b03025f09a0c506286b0&itemIGO=oecd&itemContentType=book https://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/242e3c8c-en/1/3/2/index....
      - p1esk 4y ago
        How many dermatologists have you called before giving up and agreeing to wait until May? In my experience it takes 3-5 calls to find someone willing to see me within a few days.
- thephyber 4y ago
  Anecdote: my friend in Silicon Valley is having debilitating headaches and her soonest (employer sponsored health insurance) neurologist appointment was 4 months away. “The” US health care system in practice is extremely broken unless you have a concierge doctor or you donated enough to get your name on a hospital wing. Rural areas of the US are losing access as hospitals have been closing and urban/suburban areas have seen hospital consolidation. Our system is not an envy of the world, despite the marketing that makes so many people think that.
Scoundreller 4y ago
No longer, because 350 million pounds a week was being diverted from the NHS into Brussels.
- dna_polymerase 4y ago
  According to a big red bus.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- beardyw 4y ago
  The pitch was the other way around, that £350 million going into the EU (if you believe that figure) could go to the NHS (it won't).
quickthrower2 4y ago
Sounds typical UK. But, how much is your health insurance costing, and could you land a $500,000 bill if you go to the wrong hospital?
- blackhaz 4y ago
  Costs nothing if I'm dead, I guess.

whiddershins 4y ago

No, if you have health insurance this isn't true. None of this is how it actually is in the US. Outside of addicts and the severely mentally ill it is rare to "fall off" middle class status.

molotovh 4y ago
And for the kind of jobs we're talking about (outside of maybe start-ups that haven't got benefits figured out quite yet), the commercial insurance offered by employers tends to be quite good. As a personal anecdote, my wife has a union job and I do not. She switched to my healthcare insurance because the benefits were better than what the union offered. (In a pure analysis, my job is technically less secure, but realistically I am in no danger of losing it. When correctly managed, increased risks yield increased rewards.)
thephyber 4y ago
note this comment is likely very misleading. > According to a study published in February 2019, about 530,000 bankruptcies filed annually are because of debt accrued due to a medical illness. The study found that even the Obama administration’s landmark Affordable Care Act (known as Obamacare) has failed to change the proportion of bankruptcies caused by medical debts, with poor health insurance cited as one of the main culprits.[1] 530k households into medical bankruptcy annually from medical costs in a country with 123,600k households. In 30 years, that would be more than 10% of the country, on average. [1] https://theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/14/health-insurance-medical-bankruptcy-debt https://theguardian.com/us-news/2019/nov/14/health-insurance...
- TMWNN 4y ago
  >> According to a study published in February 2019, about 530,000 bankruptcies filed annually are because of debt accrued due to a medical illness. That's the same bogus study that Elizabeth Warren has been pushing for years, which attributes any bankruptcy in which medical bills are involved to mean that medical bills caused the bankruptcy. Only 4% of US bankruptcies are because of medical bills <https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2018/03/26/the-truth-about-medical-bankruptcies/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2018/0...>. A tipoff that [insert large percentage here] of bankruptcies aren't actually because of medical costs is that only 6% of bankruptcies by those without health insurance are because of that cause. The biggest cause of bankruptcies is lack of income, which health insurance doesn't affect.