5 ms·

I'm realizing I may just be an impatient SOB. I get annoyed at slow people in all sorts of circumstances - grocery stores, airports, etc. but in those cases it

by avalys 4y ago

I'm realizing I may just be an impatient SOB. I get annoyed at slow people in all sorts of circumstances - grocery stores, airports, etc. but in those cases it is usually easy to just step around them and it doesn't last long enough to get actually frustrating. On the other hand, if I were in a grocery store and I found the aisle I wanted blocked for 60 seconds by a middle-aged man wearing a spandex uniform who had decided to barricade the entire aisle while he does a calisthenics routine - I would get quite frustrated. Especially if I eventually got past him only to find another such person doing the same thing in the next aisle over. I feel this is more analogous to the situation I regularly encounter with bicyclists. My frustration would be oriented around the thought "Can't you do this at home instead of selfishly inconveniencing everyone else?"

Nursie 4y ago
Have you thought that perhaps your need to barrel through the streets at high speed in a 1-3 ton metal box might be an inconvenience to others?
aikinai 4y ago
I don't own a car and cycle everyday (in a country/city where I'm faster than any car rather than slowing them down), and I thought this was a hilarious analogy for the relationship between motorists and cyclist in the US at least.
Doctor_Fegg 4y ago
You’re contributing to global heating, local air pollution, and streets that are unsafe for anyone not in a big metal box. The cyclist is not. I’d reconsider who is really “selfishly inconveniencing everyone else” in this scenario.
- dvzk 4y ago
  Just so no one gets the wrong idea: the vast majority of competitive and enthusiast cyclists and mountain bikers within the US own and use vehicles. Nearly every group affiliated cyclist I know routinely transports bikes to trails, meetups, and events. Our average carbon footprint is likely higher. Cyclists without cars are rarely met and usually the butt of jokes.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - kqr 4y ago
    I think in this thread we are not discussing people who ride bikes on trails, but people who use them on public roads to get from point A to B, e.g. home to work and back again. I don't care how many cars you have parked in your garage. If you take the bike one day a year, then you're doing better in terms of the environment than someone who does it zero times a year. Also bicycles are vehicles, by any definition.
    - dvzk 4y ago
      > If you take the bike one day a year, then you're doing better in terms of the environment than someone who does it zero times a year. This isn’t true. I think it would shock many HN nerds just how much flight and driving many athletes do. Nobody is cycling 100-3000 miles to attend a tour or enduro event. That’s not even counting the emissions from our eight-cylinder 4WDs, trucks, SUVs, vans, RVs, etc.
      - kqr 4y ago
        Take the bike instead of plane/car/train/etc, not in addition to. Wasn't that obvious from context?
        dvzk 4y ago
        I understand the prescription, but it’s descriptively untrue that American cyclists are climate neutral, or always better for the environment. If you see a road cyclist athlete, chances are high that the person travels around the state/country/world, and you aren’t seeing their sport- and lifestyle- related emissions. It’s like observing someone behind a desk and claiming, “Wow! You are so climate-friendly!” even though they drove to work. You can try to restrict the subject to the minuscule echelon of car-opposed cyclists, who nobody in our cycling communities takes seriously, but it’s a misleading look at our actual cycling culture. No athlete is going to forgo the conveniences of flight/driving and wear themselves out before a distant meetup or race. It’s not even logistically possible. Our vehicles also carry our supplies, tools, components, and backup bikes. Nobody is going to bikepack up 13,000 feet of elevation for 12 hours, to begin a brutal 100-mile race through the mountain passes, when they can chill in an air-conditioned SUV instead. Is cycling instead of driving better when you can? Yes, obviously. But it’s not a complete picture. The smug superiority that comes from message board commuter cyclists is clueless. The disdain toward drivers is a self-blow. It is hypocritical naïveté. It just makes the reputation of cyclists unjustifiably worse.
InCityDreams 4y ago
Whenever i get into 'a discussion' with an angry car driver, at some point "you cyclists" - as if we're a cohesive group (in your case - "Especially if I eventually got past him only to find another such person doing the same thing in the next aisle over.") I just casually mention that as peadophiles drive cars, the angry person must be a paedophile, and i refer to car drivers as such: you paedophiles. And i do not stop. If the conversation gets heated i just accuse louder. And louder. Seems people in big cars that dont have time to wait, but do have time to stop and discuss traffic with me don't like being accused, and publicly embarrassed. No, i cant do it at home, unlike yourself, you fucking paedophile. What are you in such a hurry for? School closing soon?
xpe 4y ago
Fun? How dare a cyclist use a road for fun! Or exercise, deity forbid. But it is no problem when drivers go out on the road purely for a fun and/or unnecessary drive. UPDATE: My point is that many drivers go out for 'wasteful' reasons, such as recreation or e.g. because they forgot to combine trips. Such drivers cannot easily be spotted, so they don't attract ire. But they slow us down. Such situations lead to much more inconvenience when you add it up.
ddevault 4y ago
This is a cartoonishly bad take on cyclists. They aren't doing calisthenics in a spandex uniform in a fucking supermarket. They're commuting, same as you, only they take up much less space and emit no pollution. If more people were cycling then your drive would be much better, since you wouldn't be sitting around in traffic all day. Share the goddamn road.
- xpe 4y ago
  I am a cyclist. We shouldn't pretend like all ire against cyclists is just about commuting. Some do ride purely for fun. On back roads, the impatience probably has something to do with "they don't need to be here". I don't endorse that, but, well, people can be less than great. And yes, many cyclists rock the spandex. And they should be, because no one wants an angry nether region.
  - Tade0 4y ago
    For the reason stated in your last paragraph I think it's a shame that the default shape of a bicycle is what it is. Recumbent bikes are just so much better in every aspect, yet the market for them is so small that they often cost as much as a used car. I'd rather zip around in a Milan(velomobile) than something that gives as much seating space as two palms of my hands put together.
  - Ntrails 4y ago
    > On back roads, the impatience probably has something to do with "they don't need to be here" The classic country lanes in the UK are 1.5 cars wide at most. Far too narrow to overtake a cyclist without their help and good visibility (which you typically do not have). I am trying to go from a village to a town to buy some groceries, and instead of doing a comfortable 40 up the hill, I'm doing 5. Because three cyclists are in the way and have no interest in allowing anyone to get past. These will not be the last set I encounter. Turns out the Saturday I have off to go food shopping etc is when all the cyclists like to go out and enjoy themselves. Side note: Horses have a similar impact, but always ensure people are blocked for the minimal amount of time possible. Similar with walkers. Cyclists rarely do anything at all to allow people past in my experience. Anyway, I don't get angry or aggressive. But it is frustrating especially when the cyclists using these roads are not local and act like the cars who have to use them to get around in their local area are the baddies.
xpe 4y ago
> I'm realizing I may ... be ... impatient Yes, but you aren't alone, and most people have their limits. It is really interesting when/why people have feelings of entitlement. What about getting in a car should create the expectation that a drive will go smoothly? That one day a year when the all the green lights align and you arrive to your destination 5 minutes faster? (And then many of us proceed to fritter away that 'saved' 5 minutes on our internationally interconnected web of decentralized tubes running a bewildering array of unnecessary computation to fuel what companies put in front of our eyeballs.)
mccorrinall 4y ago
Honestly, it’s the city’s fault for not providing dedicated bike lanes. There is enough space for everyone if your local urban planners don’t suck. When I moved from Dortmund, a city were the cycling experience is great, back to my dad I realized just how bad it is to let cyclers use the main road without a dedicated lane.
elefanten 4y ago
The answer is a simple "no". You can't bike for transit "at home". You can't bike for enjoyment "at home". And biking to exercise is a different form of exercise than riding an exercise bike. Raising resistance is not the same as going uphill. Maintaining your bike in balance and steering/controlling it is not the same as sitting on a static frame. Not to mention, the overall experience is completely different, and that can also matters for reasons related to quality of exercise.
bluecalm 4y ago
It's not analogous because a middle aged man doing a workout in a supermarket is using the space in a way it's not supposed to be used. Riding a bicycle on a road is how you're supposed to use the road. This is where your analogy fails. Your problem seems to be entitlement, not impatience btw. You feel entitled to feel people should use the road your way. That realization might help you fixing the issue.
kqr 4y ago
Wait, what? How did the calisthenics come into the picture? Are you aware that a lot of people – even spandex-wearing ones – are just using their bike to get to work and back home to their family again, preferably in one piece? Does this change your reaction?

by avalys 4y ago

Nursie 4y ago

Have you thought that perhaps your need to barrel through the streets at high speed in a 1-3 ton metal box might be an inconvenience to others?

aikinai 4y ago

I don't own a car and cycle everyday (in a country/city where I'm faster than any car rather than slowing them down), and I thought this was a hilarious analogy for the relationship between motorists and cyclist in the US at least.

Doctor_Fegg 4y ago

You’re contributing to global heating, local air pollution, and streets that are unsafe for anyone not in a big metal box. The cyclist is not. I’d reconsider who is really “selfishly inconveniencing everyone else” in this scenario.

dvzk 4y ago
Just so no one gets the wrong idea: the vast majority of competitive and enthusiast cyclists and mountain bikers within the US own and use vehicles. Nearly every group affiliated cyclist I know routinely transports bikes to trails, meetups, and events. Our average carbon footprint is likely higher. Cyclists without cars are rarely met and usually the butt of jokes.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- kqr 4y ago
  I think in this thread we are not discussing people who ride bikes on trails, but people who use them on public roads to get from point A to B, e.g. home to work and back again. I don't care how many cars you have parked in your garage. If you take the bike one day a year, then you're doing better in terms of the environment than someone who does it zero times a year. Also bicycles are vehicles, by any definition.
  - dvzk 4y ago
    > If you take the bike one day a year, then you're doing better in terms of the environment than someone who does it zero times a year. This isn’t true. I think it would shock many HN nerds just how much flight and driving many athletes do. Nobody is cycling 100-3000 miles to attend a tour or enduro event. That’s not even counting the emissions from our eight-cylinder 4WDs, trucks, SUVs, vans, RVs, etc.
    - kqr 4y ago
      Take the bike instead of plane/car/train/etc, not in addition to. Wasn't that obvious from context?
      - dvzk 4y ago
        I understand the prescription, but it’s descriptively untrue that American cyclists are climate neutral, or always better for the environment. If you see a road cyclist athlete, chances are high that the person travels around the state/country/world, and you aren’t seeing their sport- and lifestyle- related emissions. It’s like observing someone behind a desk and claiming, “Wow! You are so climate-friendly!” even though they drove to work. You can try to restrict the subject to the minuscule echelon of car-opposed cyclists, who nobody in our cycling communities takes seriously, but it’s a misleading look at our actual cycling culture. No athlete is going to forgo the conveniences of flight/driving and wear themselves out before a distant meetup or race. It’s not even logistically possible. Our vehicles also carry our supplies, tools, components, and backup bikes. Nobody is going to bikepack up 13,000 feet of elevation for 12 hours, to begin a brutal 100-mile race through the mountain passes, when they can chill in an air-conditioned SUV instead. Is cycling instead of driving better when you can? Yes, obviously. But it’s not a complete picture. The smug superiority that comes from message board commuter cyclists is clueless. The disdain toward drivers is a self-blow. It is hypocritical naïveté. It just makes the reputation of cyclists unjustifiably worse.

InCityDreams 4y ago

Whenever i get into 'a discussion' with an angry car driver, at some point "you cyclists" - as if we're a cohesive group (in your case - "Especially if I eventually got past him only to find another such person doing the same thing in the next aisle over.") I just casually mention that as peadophiles drive cars, the angry person must be a paedophile, and i refer to car drivers as such: you paedophiles. And i do not stop. If the conversation gets heated i just accuse louder. And louder. Seems people in big cars that dont have time to wait, but do have time to stop and discuss traffic with me don't like being accused, and publicly embarrassed. No, i cant do it at home, unlike yourself, you fucking paedophile. What are you in such a hurry for? School closing soon?

xpe 4y ago

Fun? How dare a cyclist use a road for fun! Or exercise, deity forbid. But it is no problem when drivers go out on the road purely for a fun and/or unnecessary drive. UPDATE: My point is that many drivers go out for 'wasteful' reasons, such as recreation or e.g. because they forgot to combine trips. Such drivers cannot easily be spotted, so they don't attract ire. But they slow us down. Such situations lead to much more inconvenience when you add it up.

ddevault 4y ago

This is a cartoonishly bad take on cyclists. They aren't doing calisthenics in a spandex uniform in a fucking supermarket. They're commuting, same as you, only they take up much less space and emit no pollution. If more people were cycling then your drive would be much better, since you wouldn't be sitting around in traffic all day. Share the goddamn road.

xpe 4y ago
I am a cyclist. We shouldn't pretend like all ire against cyclists is just about commuting. Some do ride purely for fun. On back roads, the impatience probably has something to do with "they don't need to be here". I don't endorse that, but, well, people can be less than great. And yes, many cyclists rock the spandex. And they should be, because no one wants an angry nether region.
- Tade0 4y ago
  For the reason stated in your last paragraph I think it's a shame that the default shape of a bicycle is what it is. Recumbent bikes are just so much better in every aspect, yet the market for them is so small that they often cost as much as a used car. I'd rather zip around in a Milan(velomobile) than something that gives as much seating space as two palms of my hands put together.
- Ntrails 4y ago
  > On back roads, the impatience probably has something to do with "they don't need to be here" The classic country lanes in the UK are 1.5 cars wide at most. Far too narrow to overtake a cyclist without their help and good visibility (which you typically do not have). I am trying to go from a village to a town to buy some groceries, and instead of doing a comfortable 40 up the hill, I'm doing 5. Because three cyclists are in the way and have no interest in allowing anyone to get past. These will not be the last set I encounter. Turns out the Saturday I have off to go food shopping etc is when all the cyclists like to go out and enjoy themselves. Side note: Horses have a similar impact, but always ensure people are blocked for the minimal amount of time possible. Similar with walkers. Cyclists rarely do anything at all to allow people past in my experience. Anyway, I don't get angry or aggressive. But it is frustrating especially when the cyclists using these roads are not local and act like the cars who have to use them to get around in their local area are the baddies.

xpe 4y ago

> I'm realizing I may ... be ... impatient Yes, but you aren't alone, and most people have their limits. It is really interesting when/why people have feelings of entitlement. What about getting in a car should create the expectation that a drive will go smoothly? That one day a year when the all the green lights align and you arrive to your destination 5 minutes faster? (And then many of us proceed to fritter away that 'saved' 5 minutes on our internationally interconnected web of decentralized tubes running a bewildering array of unnecessary computation to fuel what companies put in front of our eyeballs.)

mccorrinall 4y ago

Honestly, it’s the city’s fault for not providing dedicated bike lanes. There is enough space for everyone if your local urban planners don’t suck. When I moved from Dortmund, a city were the cycling experience is great, back to my dad I realized just how bad it is to let cyclers use the main road without a dedicated lane.

elefanten 4y ago

The answer is a simple "no". You can't bike for transit "at home". You can't bike for enjoyment "at home". And biking to exercise is a different form of exercise than riding an exercise bike. Raising resistance is not the same as going uphill. Maintaining your bike in balance and steering/controlling it is not the same as sitting on a static frame. Not to mention, the overall experience is completely different, and that can also matters for reasons related to quality of exercise.

bluecalm 4y ago

It's not analogous because a middle aged man doing a workout in a supermarket is using the space in a way it's not supposed to be used. Riding a bicycle on a road is how you're supposed to use the road. This is where your analogy fails. Your problem seems to be entitlement, not impatience btw. You feel entitled to feel people should use the road your way. That realization might help you fixing the issue.

kqr 4y ago

Wait, what? How did the calisthenics come into the picture? Are you aware that a lot of people – even spandex-wearing ones – are just using their bike to get to work and back home to their family again, preferably in one piece? Does this change your reaction?