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As a road cyclist commuter, I find that the most aggressive motorists tend to also be in larger vehicles. Whenever I'm taking the lane to attempt to prevent an
by steelframe 4y ago
As a road cyclist commuter, I find that the most aggressive motorists tend to also be in larger vehicles. Whenever I'm taking the lane to attempt to prevent an unsafe pass, it's almost always the driver of a large truck that will still execute an unsafe pass anyway (forcing oncoming traffic to take evasive action) or will tailgate, rev their engine, yell out their window, and/or wiggle back and forth in apparent frustration and intent to intimidate me.
- bparsons 4y agoI too have noticed that the more impervious the motorist feels, the more sociopathic the driving behavior.
- soco 4y agoSo basically (some) people only drive carefully when threatened with personal harm...
- LAC-Tech 4y agoYeah I think it's largely a psychological issue. I'm a slightly larger than average man - imagine how much of a nut job people would see me as if I did that all that because a little old lady was slowing me down in a narrow supermarket aisle. But somehow this behaviour is acceptable from inside a giant vehicle. It's also not an "I'm being slowed down" issue - roads here all single lane and often used by farm tractors, I've never heard a single person go into a rage fantasy about that.
- avalys 4y ago
- hdjdjyvuv 4y ago
- daveguy 4y agoI'm curious. Do you drive a truck or other large vehicle while you're getting annoyed at those nasty hobbyists?
- avianlyric 4y agoGood thing GP is using their bike to commute then. Unless commuting is now considered a hobby?
- avalys 4y ago
- engineerDave 4y agohe just came up with a whataboutism that fits his narrative. commuting/recreation it doesn't matter. The bike inconveniences the motorists for a short time where as the car can end the cyclists life.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- sidpatil 4y agoIdeally cities and townships would build physically-segregated dedicated bike paths and related infrastructure. This would keep cyclists safer and motorists faster.
- eVeechu7 4y agoIs it really an inconvenience at all? Learn some patience.
- LAC-Tech 4y agoI find bicycles very easy to manoeuvre around. They're slow and narrow. If I have to slow down to 15mph it's for literally 30 seconds or so. As for other "recreational" travellers like people in camper vans/motorhomes - you can be stuck behind them for the better part of an hour. At least the cyclist is getting fit! But really - we should all strive (myself included) to take the road as it comes. Conditions may vary, etc etc, there's no point stressing about what you can't control.
- ianai 4y agoCouldn’t agree more! “Leave the ego behind when getting behind the wheel.” Is a sort of mantra I often repeat. Having said that though, I wish we were discussing how to incentivize smaller vehicles or less mixing of huge differences in size. Feels like the arms race of vehicle size has reached a breaking point.
- HWR_14 4y agoWhy is it better for someone to inconvenience people because it's their job as opposed to because it's their hobby? If it's their hobby, at least it makes sense that they block roads during the day. If it's their job, they can move heavy machinery at night when fewer people are around - like how road work is done.
- asdff 4y agoMerging around slow traffic is part of driving
- rob74 4y agoYeah, but most of the times it's not that - most of the time the motorists make risky maneuvers to overtake you just to get to the next red light a few seconds sooner...
- lobochrome 4y ago10% incline 15mph?! Why don’t you just lay back and enjoy the sight of a TdF rider?
- atoav 4y agoI have been riding to my jobs and education nearly every day for the past 20 years. I also tend to use my bike when I go somewhere in my spare time. The amount of times I do the hobbyist thing (driving around just for the sake of it) makes up less than 1% of the time I spent on my bicycle. Get over yourself. Either you can cope with being in traffic like an adult, or you shouldn't be allowed to drive. Consider that they are public roads for a reason and people like me are not in a fight with you, we just want to get on with our lives.
- avalys 4y agoI'm realizing I may just be an impatient SOB. I get annoyed at slow people in all sorts of circumstances - grocery stores, airports, etc. but in those cases it is usually easy to just step around them and it doesn't last long enough to get actually frustrating. On the other hand, if I were in a grocery store and I found the aisle I wanted blocked for 60 seconds by a middle-aged man wearing a spandex uniform who had decided to barricade the entire aisle while he does a calisthenics routine - I would get quite frustrated. Especially if I eventually got past him only to find another such person doing the same thing in the next aisle over. I feel this is more analogous to the situation I regularly encounter with bicyclists. My frustration would be oriented around the thought "Can't you do this at home instead of selfishly inconveniencing everyone else?"
- Nursie 4y agoHave you thought that perhaps your need to barrel through the streets at high speed in a 1-3 ton metal box might be an inconvenience to others?
- aikinai 4y agoI don't own a car and cycle everyday (in a country/city where I'm faster than any car rather than slowing them down), and I thought this was a hilarious analogy for the relationship between motorists and cyclist in the US at least.
- Doctor_Fegg 4y agoYou’re contributing to global heating, local air pollution, and streets that are unsafe for anyone not in a big metal box. The cyclist is not. I’d reconsider who is really “selfishly inconveniencing everyone else” in this scenario.
- dvzk 4y agoJust so no one gets the wrong idea: the vast majority of competitive and enthusiast cyclists and mountain bikers within the US own and use vehicles. Nearly every group affiliated cyclist I know routinely transports bikes to trails, meetups, and events. Our average carbon footprint is likely higher. Cyclists without cars are rarely met and usually the butt of jokes.
- veltas 4y agoI don't engage in road rage, but I do get properly irritated by farm vehicles that choose to drive their max speed 10mph straight through town in the middle of rush hour. I honestly think there should be regulations about when you're allowed to drive slow vehicles like this on most roads. There is probably an environmental impact just from causing this mass of cars to slow down.
- Xylakant 4y agoThe farmers are working. They don‘t choose to do that, they have places to be and need their machines to get there. Do you honestly believe they‘re doing that for the lulz? What should they be doing?
- veltas 4y agoI don't really fault the farmers individually but I wouldn't mind rules to stop them.
- Xylakant 4y agoSo you want to find rules to inconvenience the people working long hours, so you can save a couple of minutes. How about realizing that you just need to plan a few minutes more for your commute and chill out. You‘re sitting comfortably in your car, likely with aircon running.
- veltas 4y agoIt's not saving a couple of minutes, it's saving literally days of people's time if you add it all together.
- ht_th 4y agoI don't know about common city/village planning in the USA, but where I am from, farm machines can almost always go around the village using secondary and tertiary roads. They don't need to go through the center or use the ring road. In this situation using these primary roads during traffic and driving way under the speed limit isn't the best choice from a communal point of view. Besides, given the width of their machines, driving through heavy traffic is more unsafe than going by a back road. Of course, using the back roads often also means taking the "long road", albeit just by a couple of kilometers. I understand the urge to take the shortest route, but I think people should think of others on the road too.
- avalys 4y ago
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- forgetfulness 4y agoA few things wrong with this comment: - Motor vehicles are inherently dangerous, the larger they are, the more dangerous they get, and their drivers should be in control of their emotions. Road rage is frowned upon for a reason - You don't know if it's a recreational activity or utilitarian transportation. - It's not that commenter that is making these people's "frustration" at their brief interaction dangerous
- bluGill 4y agoWhy do you assume his activity is recreation and the cars are not? I know plenty of people who bike to get places, and plenty of drivers who are on the road for fun only. Sure it isn't the majority, but it is still a good number of people.
- steelframe 4y agoI appreciate the intent of your comment, and while it's true that 95% of my cycling is for my daily commute to and from work, I feel it's important to state that the 5% of my road cycling that is recreational is also a perfectly legitimate use of public roads.
- avalys 4y agoIt's certainly perfectly legal and legitimate. We all have to share the roads. Personally, I am careful around bicyclists, and it is precisely for that reason that I wish bicyclists would not choose to ride on roads that have sustained stretches which are not wide enough to safely pass them. I do find it frustrating when this occurs. I don't think it is entirely my fault.
- 4y ago
- gorgoiler 4y agoOutright threats of harm — I’m sorry to hear you are subjected to this. On my eBike commute there are a lot of bike lanes which mount the curb and share space with pedestrians. At 15mph and 250lbs of loaded vehicle — me + the bike — I feel that it’s just too much risk for me to ride there so I ride on the road instead. It’s definitely the safer option for the pedestrians. This brings a lot of abuse on me but thankfully only in terms of shouting and honking. It’s certainly been an exercise in building patience. Would cross town journey times really be that awful if we dropped everyone down to 15mph? I’m talking urban Europe. When you take traffic and stoplights into consideration, what’s the lowest maximum speed possible before the speed limit is the decisive factor in journey times?
- steelframe 4y ago> Outright threats of harm — I’m sorry to hear you are subjected to this. No worries. I've been out on the roads for a couple of decades, and so these days it's not the occasional person who throws a hissy fit that concerns me. I'm a lot more wary of the motorists who aren't at all aware of what's happening right in front of them. This includes those who literally can't see me because the front of their vehicle is so high up that it completely obscures me from their vision as they turn across my lane.
- teebot 4y agoBrussels has implemented a 30km/h default speed limit and it works. Our car journeys don’t take more time and it feels way safer to ride our bikes on mixed bike/car lanes
- everyone 4y agohey if they "tailgate, rev their engine, yell out their window, and/or wiggle back and forth in apparent frustration", it means they can see you which is the most important thing. Imo the likelihood of an unhinged motorist killing you on purpose out of rage is vanishingly small compared to likelihood of one killing you without even noticing. Motorists beeping at me is the joyous song of angels, they can see me!
- altacc 4y agoThere's been some studies over the years that point to the price of a vehicle being an factor in how aggressive & entitled motorists are. I wonder if the causation here might be both ways, with those drivers more likely to buy an expensive & larger cars. E.g. https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/26/world/expensive-car-drivers-study-scli-scn-intl/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/26/world/expensive-car-drive...
- Godel_unicode 4y agoI had a colleague years ago who used to say “no matter how pointless your job seems, at least you’re not putting turn signals on BMWs”.
- timc3 4y agoSuch a stupid stereotype. Maybe it is true where you live, but no where I am at all.
- Gordonjcp 4y agoIt's Seat Cupras here.
- aaronbrethorst 4y agoI’m glad Swedes are placid drivers. Americans generally are not.
- askonomm 4y agoI ride a motorcycle and can confirm that BWM drivers really-really want me to smash into them as they have seemingly forgotten how to use something as basic as turn signals. They also don't know who has the right of way, and will just cut in front of anyone, making me think they have also forgotten how to use mirrors. Suffice it to say, BWM drivers are quite hated here (Estonia) and often joked about as low-IQ wifebeater wearing low-budget Vin Diesel ripoffs.
- Gordonjcp 4y agoHah, so you can be sure that me and my 250 quid Range Rover are pretty considerate then.
- megablast 4y agoBad drivers know they will crash so want the safety for them, fuck everyone else.
- Gordonjcp 4y agoI drive a big old 1997 Range Rover. I pass cyclists way wider than I pass cars - I'm not averse to getting the driver's side tyres on the grass on really narrow roads. One reason for this is it has the aerodynamics of a garden shed and I'm terrified that I'll pass the cyclist safely only to knock them off with the wake turbulence once I'm well in front :-D What I've noticed is that if I pass really wide, everyone behind me - actually everyone - passes just about as wide as I do. One thing that does my nut in is cyclists not taking the lane when there's nowhere to pass. Just stay in the middle, stay consistent, don't try to let me past if you're not happy to move over. I can wait because I need a lot more room than you think, I can see much further up the road can you, and I'll decide when it's safe. Literally yesterday I was behind a cyclist who was waving me to pass on a quiet country road, but he couldn't see the other cyclist coming towards me just about 150m further up the road. If I'd gone because the guy in front of me was waving me past, I'd have splatted the other guy who he couldn't see. I ride my bike the same way I drive - as slow as possible and as fast as necessary, right up the middle of my lane, and with really stupid fuel consumption.
- danw1979 4y agoYou sir, are a good driver.
- cycomanic 4y agoI appreciate you're driving considerate for cyclist (being a cyclist myself). I also concur with your observation, that the first driver behind a cyclist will often "set the scene" of how other cars will pass (or yell/honk at the cyclist). I also agree that taking the lane is often the safer option for cyclist, however I also understand the motivation of cyclist trying to move to the right and getting the following car to move through. I also have one too many times being essentially tailgated (not really the right term for a bike), by a completely nutcase motorist who then overtakes very aggressively and purposefully close. Better to get them in front of you as fast as possible.
- badpun 4y agoI don't know the US law, but in Poland the law says everyone (motorists, cyclists) is supposed to ride as close to the right edge of the road as possible. So, if you ride your bike in the center of the lane instead, you're breaking the law, and the motorist has the right to be angry (at least in Poland).
- bluecalm 4y agoAs close to the right as possible is around 75cm as confirmed by courts. It's more if there are parked cars on the curb. On many small roads it means taking the lane to ride safely. Additionally you can take the lane close to a juncture and if you're turning left. It's also common sense to take the lane if you want to prevent a dangerous pass. It's a message to a driver: "it's not safe to pass now". You're in front so you see more than them. Anyway, I am yet to see a cyclist in the middle of the lane without good reason here but I keep seeing a lot of entitled angry drivers.
- Xylakant 4y agoSame in Germany, but „as close as safely possible“ is around 80-100 centimeters from the right end of the handlebar - more if there are parked cars to avoid being hit by an opening door. The handlebar is usually around 60-70 centimeter wide, that places the center of the bike at around 1,20 - 1,35 meters from the right edge of the lane. A lane is about 3,00 - 3,50 meters wide - the center of the lane would be at around 1,50 - 1,75m. That‘s pretty close to the 1,20 which is the minimum safe distance. Cars that want to pass with the recommended distance of 1,50 - 2,00 meters from the left end of the handlebar need to go into a second lane in any case. Middle of the lane is a perfectly good spot to aim for.
- kqr 4y agoNot to mention that if you're planning a left turn in the next intersection, close to the right edge of the road is not "as close as safely possible" anymore. Depending on traffic volume, "as close as safely possible" may be to take the left lane an intersection or two before the anticipated turn – just like you would in a car.
- 4y ago
- whiddershins 4y ago'Taking the lane to prevent an unsafe pass' ... ? There might be a reason people are angry, and it might be that some people are simply more likely to let you know.
- veltas 4y agoIf you try to "take the lane" you are essentially positioning yourself in a way that tries to police other drivers behaviour, or block them. This behaviour in a car would annoy people, and it is more annoying on a bike because bikes are slower. I understand sometimes this may make it safer for you, but this is why people are getting annoyed if it's confusing to you. I also can't know what you consider to be an 'unsafe pass' but these days I think cyclists and road rules seem to expect cyclists to need a totally impractical amount of extra room. I think a few feet is often comfortable, depending on context, when I'm cycling, but official guidance in the UK is 'a car width'. How then should cars pass people cycling side by side? Not at all? I personally think these rules have created a more toxic situation on UK roads. They need to be more practical if they want better conformance. They do also need to be policed. But I strongly advise members of the public to not try and enforce them themselves.
- spoonjim 4y agoThe road works because it is governed by written rules. The written rules allow the cyclist to take the lane. If you don't want to obey the written rules don't operate a motor vehicle.
- veltas 4y agoI didn't say it's not the rule or people are entitled to disobey them. I just explained why people get annoyed.
- danw1979 4y agoYou didn’t. You gave “strong advise” and an opinion on passing cyclists with a “few feet” of room, which is dangerous and contrary to the highway code, which states a minimum of 1.5m.
- veltas 4y agoIt's not dangerous at all depending on context, a word I was careful to use. You don't have a magic bubble around you that makes you safe with a 1.5m radius.