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> On Twitter, offended students and others called for Negy’s termination with the hashtag #UCFFireHim. The next day, a UCF press release called his tweets “not

> On Twitter, offended students and others called for Negy’s termination with the hashtag #UCFFireHim. The next day, a UCF press release called his tweets “not only wrong, but particularly painful,” announced an investigation into Negy, and directed students with complaints to a website and phone number. Regardless of whether you agree with this person's opinions or not I think it's safe to say Twitter has become an actual cancer on the world. Especially in America. I've heard plenty of times at work people unironically say "I don't want to get canceled on Twitter" for saying something relatively mundane that in context was fine, but if written in a small tweet would start a feeding frenzy. It is absolutely silly to me that we've let a bunch of upset over-educated under-worked twitter goons have so much external power. Some people deserve to be "canceled". It's not twitter users job's to form a mob and prevent people from ever being employed again. I have no idea why or where this started but it probably has to stop for political discourse in America to turn into anything less than immediately incendiary. Reddit has the same problem. I rarely say anything super inflammatory on the internet but this mob mentality has prevented me from contributing to various projects on github, joining discords, etc for fear one of these eternal-victims gets their feelings hurt and decides to dedicate a large portion of their life to destroying mine.

prepend 4y ago
Interestingly, it seems like people joining a mob would be a signal of poor judgement and all around jerkiness. I wouldn’t want to fire someone who tweeted “#ucffirehim” but it would be good to know who was in such a mob.
- Test0129 4y ago
  I've had a pet theory that a lot of these "action committees" (for lack of a better word) in tech companies are supported by the company because of that. You may want to know who in your company tends to be incendiary and keep them away from the clients. I have no real evidence of this but from a intelligence standpoint I think a company would have a lot to gain from that at almost zero cost.
nerdponx 4y ago
Is the problem Twitter, or the people that use Twitter? What honestly do you think Twitter's hand in this is? Even with a purely chronological feed, people with "selective" critical thinking skills, inconsistent value systems, and a disrespect of personal liberty will still surround themselves with other such people. Twitter's only option would be to take a "paradox of intolerance" approach and start banning such activity, but then you are trusting a corporation to make such judgments fairly, rather than just expediently. And if Twitter disappeared tomorrow, what then? Old-school student protests, picketing, signs/posters/pamphlets, letters in the school newspaper, and "cancel-prof-foo.net" getting thousands of views per day. Ultimately the problem is that people are too willing to join the dogpile and/or are unwilling to stand in solidarity against the dogpile. Twitter doesn't cancel people; people cancel people. Edit: I also want to be very clear that Professor Katz, who accused a radical student group of being a "terrorist organization" was absolutely in the wrong for doing so and in my opinion does deserve to be censured for that statement. And making public statements about "black privilege" is even worse, which frankly leads me to question Professor Negy's moral compass and fitness to be an educator. I fully agree with the assessment that they used their rights to free speech irresponsibly, at best. But I also think it's completely wrong to dig up an old incident for which they had already been judged and punished. I'm sure that the members of the Black Justice League are strongly opposed to policies that take away the rights of convicted felons, and I'm sure that they all have the critical thinking skills to recognize the parallel here, and I'm also sure that none of them would be interested in admitting such. In my opinion the only correct move by the University here is to dole out wrist slaps on both sides and tell all parties involved to drop it or face further consequences.
- creato 4y ago
  I bet twitter could have (and maybe still could) cut down toxicity massively by only showing tweets in an algorithmic feed that are not replies to an existing tweet. I think the big problem with twitter is that people are often only exposed to the "other side" of an argument by first seeing a reply to that tweet from someone they are following (and probably agree with). That's a recipe for starting mob flame wars.
- brightball 4y ago
candlemas 4y ago
I wonder if it started when tumblr collapsed and its toxic user base was unleashed across the internet.
superchroma 4y ago
If it wasn't twitter it would be Facebook or something else we can't even imagine. The problem is Americans.
- nerdponx 4y ago
  Didn't the moral equivalent of a Twitter mob lead to Brexit? The problem is humans.
  - superchroma 4y ago
    Yes. It's definitely not a blue/red team issue. More generally, I think the problem is low information humans. Humans who react with emotions first reflexively and then selectively scrape available data to build up some sandcastle to support their actions. With Brexit, there was some vague notion of exploitation by the EU and by immigrants, and of lost sovereignty, and with Twitter mobs, it's of some great unpunished injustice. With the former, it leads to people voting against their own interests, and with the latter, a rejection of law and order and a return to half hearted vigilante justice.
  - disgruntledphd2 4y ago
    Sort of. Brexit was mostly driven by all the right wing tabloids, which have been around long before social media.
  - origin_path 4y ago
    If you're describing more than half a country as a "Twitter mob", I suggest the analogy is flawed.
    - nerdponx 4y ago
      I'm not sure it is. The reason that Twitter mobs hold sway over university administrators is that they represent a large enough subset of the University community, including enough individuals of influence in power. A mob does not have to be a minority.
phantom_of_cato 4y ago
> Regardless of whether you agree with this person's opinions or not I think it's safe to say Twitter has become an actual cancer on the world. The problem isn't Twitter, it's the goons. They have quite a bit of influence on major social institutions, and that's not merely because they can tweet. Without social media, we'd be left with legacy news organizations and their distorted narratives.
- Stamp01 4y ago
  Social media has been at least as warped thanks to state interference and astroturfing, as well as The Algorithm itself creating echo chambers. Social media is designed to make every user feel like they're in the majority no matter their views. Couple that with the incentive to keep users "engaged" by keeping them outraged, and you end up with a user base of various angry mobs from all sides.
heavyset_go 4y ago
There's a certain irony in scolding others for their perceived victimhood while simultaneously claiming to be a victim yourself.
- Test0129 4y ago
  I never claimed to be a victim of it. All I said what this mentality has driven me off from contributing/joining various groups because of the fear of these people existing in the ranks. The constantly changing rules of what is right, what is wrong, what words are "good" and "bad", political alignments, etc is all too much for me to even try to understand further than not understanding is a reason to attack me according to these kinds of people. If I was attacked by it, I'd be a victim. I'm not a victim, but I exercise an abundance of caution (conversations as brief, formal, and public as possible and recorded when not) when dealing with this kind of person in the workplace and I'd rather not have to do even more of that in my free time. I already spend enough clock cycles trying to identify these people so I know who to avoid, monitor, or if I'm forced to talk to them arrange a proper meeting/recording so everything is in the clear. Perhaps I am being extreme, but if I lose my health insurance I die and I cannot reasonably let some punk take that away from me so easily.
  - nerdponx 4y ago
    > I never claimed to be a victim of it. Profs Negy and Katz did, and in spectacularly offensive fashion.
    - jollybean 4y ago
      The professor is literally and obviously a victim of an ideological and authoritarian mob attack on his career. Blatant. Claims of victimhood by any other group are debatable in any general context. I'm ashamed that intelligent adults on HN could somehow come to the conclusion that ganging up on professors who have opinions different than one's own is somehow warranted. It's repulsive.
      - 4y ago
warinukraine 4y ago
junofan 4y ago
> I have no idea why or where this started Money. You can pay groups to try to “cancel” others. Generally a performance fee applies if successful.
- jollybean 4y ago
  No, this is definitely not about money, and it's not even about ideology - it's petty backstabbing vindictiveness. These are adults beating each other up on the playground.

prepend 4y ago

Interestingly, it seems like people joining a mob would be a signal of poor judgement and all around jerkiness. I wouldn’t want to fire someone who tweeted “#ucffirehim” but it would be good to know who was in such a mob.

Test0129 4y ago
I've had a pet theory that a lot of these "action committees" (for lack of a better word) in tech companies are supported by the company because of that. You may want to know who in your company tends to be incendiary and keep them away from the clients. I have no real evidence of this but from a intelligence standpoint I think a company would have a lot to gain from that at almost zero cost.

nerdponx 4y ago

Is the problem Twitter, or the people that use Twitter? What honestly do you think Twitter's hand in this is? Even with a purely chronological feed, people with "selective" critical thinking skills, inconsistent value systems, and a disrespect of personal liberty will still surround themselves with other such people. Twitter's only option would be to take a "paradox of intolerance" approach and start banning such activity, but then you are trusting a corporation to make such judgments fairly, rather than just expediently. And if Twitter disappeared tomorrow, what then? Old-school student protests, picketing, signs/posters/pamphlets, letters in the school newspaper, and "cancel-prof-foo.net" getting thousands of views per day. Ultimately the problem is that people are too willing to join the dogpile and/or are unwilling to stand in solidarity against the dogpile. Twitter doesn't cancel people; people cancel people. Edit: I also want to be very clear that Professor Katz, who accused a radical student group of being a "terrorist organization" was absolutely in the wrong for doing so and in my opinion does deserve to be censured for that statement. And making public statements about "black privilege" is even worse, which frankly leads me to question Professor Negy's moral compass and fitness to be an educator. I fully agree with the assessment that they used their rights to free speech irresponsibly, at best. But I also think it's completely wrong to dig up an old incident for which they had already been judged and punished. I'm sure that the members of the Black Justice League are strongly opposed to policies that take away the rights of convicted felons, and I'm sure that they all have the critical thinking skills to recognize the parallel here, and I'm also sure that none of them would be interested in admitting such. In my opinion the only correct move by the University here is to dole out wrist slaps on both sides and tell all parties involved to drop it or face further consequences.

creato 4y ago
I bet twitter could have (and maybe still could) cut down toxicity massively by only showing tweets in an algorithmic feed that are not replies to an existing tweet. I think the big problem with twitter is that people are often only exposed to the "other side" of an argument by first seeing a reply to that tweet from someone they are following (and probably agree with). That's a recipe for starting mob flame wars.
brightball 4y ago

candlemas 4y ago

I wonder if it started when tumblr collapsed and its toxic user base was unleashed across the internet.

superchroma 4y ago

If it wasn't twitter it would be Facebook or something else we can't even imagine. The problem is Americans.

nerdponx 4y ago
Didn't the moral equivalent of a Twitter mob lead to Brexit? The problem is humans.
- superchroma 4y ago
  Yes. It's definitely not a blue/red team issue. More generally, I think the problem is low information humans. Humans who react with emotions first reflexively and then selectively scrape available data to build up some sandcastle to support their actions. With Brexit, there was some vague notion of exploitation by the EU and by immigrants, and of lost sovereignty, and with Twitter mobs, it's of some great unpunished injustice. With the former, it leads to people voting against their own interests, and with the latter, a rejection of law and order and a return to half hearted vigilante justice.
- disgruntledphd2 4y ago
  Sort of. Brexit was mostly driven by all the right wing tabloids, which have been around long before social media.
- origin_path 4y ago
  If you're describing more than half a country as a "Twitter mob", I suggest the analogy is flawed.
  - nerdponx 4y ago
    I'm not sure it is. The reason that Twitter mobs hold sway over university administrators is that they represent a large enough subset of the University community, including enough individuals of influence in power. A mob does not have to be a minority.

phantom_of_cato 4y ago

> Regardless of whether you agree with this person's opinions or not I think it's safe to say Twitter has become an actual cancer on the world. The problem isn't Twitter, it's the goons. They have quite a bit of influence on major social institutions, and that's not merely because they can tweet. Without social media, we'd be left with legacy news organizations and their distorted narratives.

Stamp01 4y ago
Social media has been at least as warped thanks to state interference and astroturfing, as well as The Algorithm itself creating echo chambers. Social media is designed to make every user feel like they're in the majority no matter their views. Couple that with the incentive to keep users "engaged" by keeping them outraged, and you end up with a user base of various angry mobs from all sides.

heavyset_go 4y ago

There's a certain irony in scolding others for their perceived victimhood while simultaneously claiming to be a victim yourself.

Test0129 4y ago
I never claimed to be a victim of it. All I said what this mentality has driven me off from contributing/joining various groups because of the fear of these people existing in the ranks. The constantly changing rules of what is right, what is wrong, what words are "good" and "bad", political alignments, etc is all too much for me to even try to understand further than not understanding is a reason to attack me according to these kinds of people. If I was attacked by it, I'd be a victim. I'm not a victim, but I exercise an abundance of caution (conversations as brief, formal, and public as possible and recorded when not) when dealing with this kind of person in the workplace and I'd rather not have to do even more of that in my free time. I already spend enough clock cycles trying to identify these people so I know who to avoid, monitor, or if I'm forced to talk to them arrange a proper meeting/recording so everything is in the clear. Perhaps I am being extreme, but if I lose my health insurance I die and I cannot reasonably let some punk take that away from me so easily.
- nerdponx 4y ago
  > I never claimed to be a victim of it. Profs Negy and Katz did, and in spectacularly offensive fashion.
  - jollybean 4y ago
    The professor is literally and obviously a victim of an ideological and authoritarian mob attack on his career. Blatant. Claims of victimhood by any other group are debatable in any general context. I'm ashamed that intelligent adults on HN could somehow come to the conclusion that ganging up on professors who have opinions different than one's own is somehow warranted. It's repulsive.
    - 4y ago

warinukraine 4y ago

junofan 4y ago

> I have no idea why or where this started Money. You can pay groups to try to “cancel” others. Generally a performance fee applies if successful.

jollybean 4y ago
No, this is definitely not about money, and it's not even about ideology - it's petty backstabbing vindictiveness. These are adults beating each other up on the playground.