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Bringing your own bags to the grocery store does about as much as wearing a ribbon for your favorite cause -- it makes you feel like you are doing something whe
by waynecochran 4y ago
Bringing your own bags to the grocery store does about as much as wearing a ribbon for your favorite cause -- it makes you feel like you are doing something when you really aren't. Almost everything you put in that bag is already packaged -- often multiple times. Folks would rather feel good and virtue signal than really solve the problem.
- xnx 4y agoI agree with some of this sentiment. As others have pointed out, reusing bags doesn't stop anyone from taking more substantial steps. But our attention/energy is limited and we shouldn't shame anyone for their straws or bags.
- waynecochran 4y agoNo shaming. Reuse bags all you want. Just don't fool yourself that this is making any progress, because it is not. It is actually detrimental to encouraging real solutions.
- jonnycomputer 4y agoThe obvious thing is to re-use your disposable plastic bags.
- Scoundreller 4y agoI used them as garbage bags. Now I buy garbage bags in a box.
- jonnycomputer 4y agoI use them as garbage bags, and to pick up after my dog.
- TedDoesntTalk 4y ago> really solve the problem. What is your solution?
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- JTbane 4y agoIIRC the paper industry is very energy intensive...
- waynecochran 4y agoFor this particular problem, create single-use, highly compostable packaging. This has to happen not just at the final grocery bagging step, but for all packaging.
- acebarry 4y agoWe have it already. It's called paper or cardboard
- TedDoesntTalk 4y agoAnd unless it’s waxed or oiled, it doesn’t hold liquids or liquidy things very long but I guess that defeats the compostability?
- SamBam 4y agoThe chart suggests you'd have to reuse a paper bag 43 times for it to be as low-impact as a plastic bag.
- ghshephard 4y agoThe point of this graph was to suggest that single-use highly compostable packaging would be 40x more damaging to the environment than a LDPE; Low-density polyethylene bag. People focus on the disposal a lot, when the actual creation of said bags, which LDPE is close to zero at scale, is what causes damage to the environment. We're like drunk people search for our keys under the streetlight - we only focus on the stuff that we can see, rather than what is actually important.
- NegativeLatency 4y agoFeels like a bit of a cheap shot to be right online. I’m not saying I have a solution either but not acknowledging that it’s a systemic problem is fairly thought ending.
- colordrops 4y agoNonsense. Reducing waste in one way does not preclude reducing waste in other ways. It's like saying that you might as well coutinue smoking because you are still drinking.
- jonnycomputer 4y agoI once had someone say that if you smoke, you might as well not get exercise, like jog or ride a bike. Strange logics.
- waynecochran 4y agoI am just saying we should be honest about the problem and realize the silliness... Look at the graph -- 20,000 Organic cotton bag reuses to match a standard single-use plastic bag!
- colordrops 4y agoI don't get it, you don't think it's worth avoiding putting 20,000 plastic bags in a landfill?
- bitdivision 4y agoHuh? The graph shows that you need to use an organic cotton reusable bag 20,000 times in order for it to have the same environmental impact as a single use LDPE bag.
- colordrops 4y agoOh wow ok, I misread the chart. That's not great at all. I do stand by the content my original comment as a general principal. But this does indicate that there is not enough awareness around the environmental impact of various materials, assuming their analysis takes everything into account.
- waynecochran 4y agoLook at the graph! It is actual harmful to tell folks they are solving a problem when they are clearly not.
- version_five 4y agoIt has a side effect of amplifying class differences. Many people here could buy a new set of reusable bags every trip without it registering. I grocery shop in my car so paper bags are no problem if that's what the store has. If I had to walk somewhere, I could only carry one. I think this is a side-effect that provides positive feedback, just like many of these initiatives, they are a way for rich people to feel like something is being done without doing anything, while actively maintaining their position in the world. If you look around, there is a lot of stuff like this.
- wmsiler 4y ago>Folks would rather feel good and virtue signal than really solve the problem. The idea that people are using reusable shopping bags because they want to virtue signal and not because of any actual desire to do good is a completely baseless and needlessly pessimistic viewpoint. A much more reasonable and likely explanation is that most people can't fully assess the environmental impact of their decisions, so they make the entirely reasonable assumption that if they can avoid throwing away a dozen plastic bags every week, then that's probably a good thing. That assumption may turn out to be incorrect, but that doesn't mean they have the harmful motivations you are accusing them of.
- waynecochran 4y agoDid you even look at the graph? Reusable bags are fine, but this is pure silliness to think that this makes any real progress.
- SamBam 4y agoThe objection was to the idea that such people are "virtue signalling." It's such a silly and overused-term, generally used incorrectly, and used to snear at people doing good. No, such people generally do think they are doing something worthwhile, and worthwhile things are right to do. If, in fact, they are not doing anything worthwhile, which this graph suggests, then that is a mistake of the facts. It doesn't mean that they were just trying to "virtue signal."
- waynecochran 4y agoBut people are not, at least statistically, doing any measurable good. It is wrong to encourage non-solutions. Just be honest is all I am saying.
- SamBam 4y agoFrom a climate-change only perspecitive, the original paper actually says that if you re-use a cotton bag just 53 times, you're already doing measurable good, and if you keep using it you keep doing more measurable good. The higher number come from value judgements about other kids of impacts, and reasonable people can disagree over the relative values of those impacts vs climate change.
- tshaddox 4y agoThe bags I bring to the grocery store are much stronger and more comfortable to carry and pack in my car than any of the provided disposable bags.
- deleted 4y ago[deleted]
- netsharc 4y agoGeez, people who throw "feh, virtue signaling" for things they don't like... Does it help? In the grand scheme of things, it won't help enough, but waste reduction is always helpful.
- Ekaros 4y agoI don't care about environment, but I do it for practicality and use experience. A proper nice bag is so much nicer to bag and carry than either plastic or paper bag. It has nice shape suitable for squarish and round bottles. Plus I don't really have to care how heavy I bag it. That is I have to bag it really heavy for it to break.