4 ms·

I always take this sort of news as an unintended announcment of human prosperity. "Person X, who does frivolous activity Y, has conflict with competition Z".

I always take this sort of news as an unintended announcment of human prosperity. "Person X, who does frivolous activity Y, has conflict with competition Z". If we're so far removed from the raw struggle to keep body and soul together that we can not only play Y, but have competition Z surrounding Y, then we are truly succeeding.

skeeter2020 4y ago
...or we've already failed, and this is all that is left?
- manholio 4y ago
  ...or we're on on the very edge, walking straight into the abyss, totally focused on some mindless diversion on our device's screen?
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  No, I do not think competitive games are evidence of that. Do you have a reason to think that, or were you just being contrary?
Dig1t 4y ago
Absolutely true, I have the same thought pretty often. It’s one of many examples that we, in the first world, all ignore or take for granted every day. We’re so far removed from the struggles of our ancestors that we’ve invented new struggles just to pass the time. We can devote entire lives to the pursuit of frivolous activities like this and it’s pretty great.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  Elites have entertained themselves with soap opera drama and frivolities throughout human history, plenty of which had a body count measured in poor people. It's not a sign of civilization, or a sign of humans in general being detached from material needs. There have always been subsets of humans who haven't had anything to worry about other than social position, acceptance and their own entertainment. Other people are skipping meals to pay off medical debt.
  - noirbot 4y ago
    That said, it's curious how often some fractional subset of those "frivolities" are something genuinely important. Far back in history, the basis of a lot of science and cultural advancement was through Elites "wasting time" on mathematics, chemistry, and the like. What's interesting now is that the pool of elites in the world large enough to engage in frivolous activity is now so much larger than before. So instead of some royal scion who's very into fox hunting, we have fairly relatively poor people who are passionate about all kinds of other things. I find it hard to be too dismal about more people having the freedom to do things other than backbreaking labor that is necessary to stay alive. How many more people now are able to keep their body in shape and soul happy via "frivolous" artistic ventures or sports? And of those, how many of them refresh themselves by doing something that may ultimately seem as important as Isaac Newton's idle musings about math or Byron's poetry?
  - InCityDreams 4y ago
    >It's not a sign of civilization, or a sign of humans in general being detached from material needs. Which 'it' are you referring to in the previous sentence (or in the original comment)?
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
pessimizer 4y ago
Or it's bread and circuses. Just because my local news spends 4 minutes on a story about a dog doesn't mean that nothing in the world was more important to the people watching my local news than a story about a dog.
Mountain_Skies 4y ago
'King of Kong' was a fun movie, though due to admissions by its creator that they edited in a conflict that didn't exist, I no longer call it a documentary. Beyond that, it's very strange that so many have expended so much effort on this topic. It doesn't seem to be about a video game record anymore and is just another case of people who have put themselves into two different camps warring with each other simply for some kind of emotional thrill they get out of the conflict itself. In the end, we know that Billy, Steve, and whoever is the current record holder are all insanely talented at the game Donkey Kong and this at point, it reminds me of arguments over which tall building is taller, resorting to measuring from garage entrances to radio masts, when in reality, two buildings that are 500m tall and within 1% of each other are so far above everything else that the 1% doesn't matter anymore. But we like absolute clear-cut black and white labels on things, so the arguing will go on.
- smcl 4y ago
  The movie has definitely got more people involved in this than normal, since they likely wouldn't have known about it otherwise. But cheating in competitive gaming like this is taken very seriously. Karl Jobst has covered a few scandals like Trackmania (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww7x5elophk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww7x5elophk), and Guitar Hero (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58fqNL-kvaI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58fqNL-kvaI) and the original Doom (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv0ZRTlIXR0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv0ZRTlIXR0). In this case it doesn't help that Billy comes across as very weird and unlikeable, the movie plays this up, particularly in contrast to Wiebe (who seems pretty nice) but it hurts him more that he's been a bit evasive and turned in a few questionable submissions. And re the tallest-buildings-within-1%-of-each-other thing, that's just it. People who suck at a game and report outright fraudulent results are generally outed pretty quickly. But the big scandals - like the ones I linked above - often occur when those who are already at the very top of their game feel pressure to compete and cut a few corners to get a score or a time just ahead of what they are normally capable of achieving. And those communities are not centered around discovering who happens to be roughly in that top 1% of competitors, but around a leaderboard of ranked scores. They share tips, strategies and there are genuine friendly rivalries between competitors.

skeeter2020 4y ago

...or we've already failed, and this is all that is left?

manholio 4y ago
...or we're on on the very edge, walking straight into the abyss, totally focused on some mindless diversion on our device's screen?
Dylan16807 4y ago
No, I do not think competitive games are evidence of that. Do you have a reason to think that, or were you just being contrary?

Dig1t 4y ago

Absolutely true, I have the same thought pretty often. It’s one of many examples that we, in the first world, all ignore or take for granted every day. We’re so far removed from the struggles of our ancestors that we’ve invented new struggles just to pass the time. We can devote entire lives to the pursuit of frivolous activities like this and it’s pretty great.

pessimizer 4y ago
Elites have entertained themselves with soap opera drama and frivolities throughout human history, plenty of which had a body count measured in poor people. It's not a sign of civilization, or a sign of humans in general being detached from material needs. There have always been subsets of humans who haven't had anything to worry about other than social position, acceptance and their own entertainment. Other people are skipping meals to pay off medical debt.
- noirbot 4y ago
  That said, it's curious how often some fractional subset of those "frivolities" are something genuinely important. Far back in history, the basis of a lot of science and cultural advancement was through Elites "wasting time" on mathematics, chemistry, and the like. What's interesting now is that the pool of elites in the world large enough to engage in frivolous activity is now so much larger than before. So instead of some royal scion who's very into fox hunting, we have fairly relatively poor people who are passionate about all kinds of other things. I find it hard to be too dismal about more people having the freedom to do things other than backbreaking labor that is necessary to stay alive. How many more people now are able to keep their body in shape and soul happy via "frivolous" artistic ventures or sports? And of those, how many of them refresh themselves by doing something that may ultimately seem as important as Isaac Newton's idle musings about math or Byron's poetry?
- InCityDreams 4y ago
  >It's not a sign of civilization, or a sign of humans in general being detached from material needs. Which 'it' are you referring to in the previous sentence (or in the original comment)?

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

pessimizer 4y ago

Or it's bread and circuses. Just because my local news spends 4 minutes on a story about a dog doesn't mean that nothing in the world was more important to the people watching my local news than a story about a dog.

Mountain_Skies 4y ago

'King of Kong' was a fun movie, though due to admissions by its creator that they edited in a conflict that didn't exist, I no longer call it a documentary. Beyond that, it's very strange that so many have expended so much effort on this topic. It doesn't seem to be about a video game record anymore and is just another case of people who have put themselves into two different camps warring with each other simply for some kind of emotional thrill they get out of the conflict itself. In the end, we know that Billy, Steve, and whoever is the current record holder are all insanely talented at the game Donkey Kong and this at point, it reminds me of arguments over which tall building is taller, resorting to measuring from garage entrances to radio masts, when in reality, two buildings that are 500m tall and within 1% of each other are so far above everything else that the 1% doesn't matter anymore. But we like absolute clear-cut black and white labels on things, so the arguing will go on.

smcl 4y ago
The movie has definitely got more people involved in this than normal, since they likely wouldn't have known about it otherwise. But cheating in competitive gaming like this is taken very seriously. Karl Jobst has covered a few scandals like Trackmania (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww7x5elophk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ww7x5elophk), and Guitar Hero (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58fqNL-kvaI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58fqNL-kvaI) and the original Doom (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv0ZRTlIXR0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jv0ZRTlIXR0). In this case it doesn't help that Billy comes across as very weird and unlikeable, the movie plays this up, particularly in contrast to Wiebe (who seems pretty nice) but it hurts him more that he's been a bit evasive and turned in a few questionable submissions. And re the tallest-buildings-within-1%-of-each-other thing, that's just it. People who suck at a game and report outright fraudulent results are generally outed pretty quickly. But the big scandals - like the ones I linked above - often occur when those who are already at the very top of their game feel pressure to compete and cut a few corners to get a score or a time just ahead of what they are normally capable of achieving. And those communities are not centered around discovering who happens to be roughly in that top 1% of competitors, but around a leaderboard of ranked scores. They share tips, strategies and there are genuine friendly rivalries between competitors.