6 ms·

Yah, why advocate for real housing, when we can just stuff people into 100sq.ft. mobile tiny homes. That way we can ensure the working poor never set down roots

Yah, why advocate for real housing, when we can just stuff people into 100sq.ft. mobile tiny homes. That way we can ensure the working poor never set down roots or enjoy the stability of a neighbourhood; we’ll be able to keep them moving, always travelling to the next temporary wage-slave job. Brilliant idea, Tim, fuckin’ brillo! Why should we ever aim higher than that! Next, let’s stack the tiny homes. Kowloon Walled City, here we come!

jaclaz 4y ago
Mobile tiny home which costs US$ 10,000 [1] according to the Author, that then proceeds to illustrate it with the picture of a non-mobile (and not so tiny) house that was estimated US$ 25,000 in 2016 [2] [1] What? [2] and which at first sight won't be anything less than US$ 50,000-60,000 today
- moistly 4y ago
  I just looked up tandem 10000lb flat deck trailers, e.g. suitable platform on which to build a tiny home. They’re about $5000 a pop. Maybe if you steal everything from a construction site, a tiny home could be built for $10K.
  - toomuchtodo 4y ago
    Real talk, a tiny home we’ll equipped will run $40k to $100k; you only get close to the low end with lower end materials and supplying the labor yourself (I’ve helped build and haul to their final location more than one). With that said, the greatest challenge is the stigma of a trailer park. The local community NIMBYs fight hard to not permit new communities from being established (speaking as someone who optioned a parcel of land in central Florida for this purpose and had to go plead the case at planning meetings), and existing ones are getting snapped up by private equity and real estate investors to turn the financial screws on people who have nowhere else to go. https://www.npr.org/2022/05/11/1098193173/what-happens-when-private-equity-takes-over-mobile-home-parks https://www.npr.org/2022/05/11/1098193173/what-happens-when-... https://rejournals.com/investors-appetite-for-manufactured-housing-keeps-growing-during-pandemic/ https://rejournals.com/investors-appetite-for-manufactured-h... I think this model works as a coop or non profit land trust, where the resident owns the home but the community protects their stake in the lot. Think “A Tiny Home For Good” Tiny Home Park Edition. You need to defend against the Capital vultures. https://www.atinyhomeforgood.org/ https://www.atinyhomeforgood.org/ (Tangentially, someone from YC should reach out to the above non profit to have them go through their next non profit accelerator cycle)
    - notch656a 4y ago
      Tiny home dream for me died once I found out I couldn't park it as primary residence on residential zoned land in my city. Any big cities where you can do this and own the property? Paying rent for a house you own in the clear is a non-starter.
      - toomuchtodo 4y ago
        All zoning is local. You’ll have to research prospective locales to understand the nuance. Tiny homes kept on trailers are done for a reason; to be regulated as RVs instead of a fixed structured, avoiding typical ADU or structure to lot size ratio issues.
      - hattmall 4y ago
        You can build a permanent structure that's the bare minimum really cheaply and then just park the tiny home there, and that really only matters if you want to get grid utilities.
        bombcar 4y ago
        “Bare minimum really cheaply” varies from a shack with power and no water to a three bedroom house with geothermal. It’s all down to localities.
      - lh7777 4y ago
        The article mentions a few: "In the last few years, some US cities made a surprising break with the mobile-exclusionary tradition by legalizing residence in RVs or tiny houses on wheels on residential lots. First Fresno, then Los Angeles and San Jose, and various cities & states now allow mobile Accessory Dwelling Units. Portland allowed one movable home per residential lot in the 2021 Shelter to Housing Continuum zoning reforms, and Oakland created a new residential type, “Vehicular Residential Facilities,” which allows multiple vehicle dwellings on sites with sufficient area."
    - xrd 4y ago
      Are you still in Central Florida? Maybe you never actually were, just optioned the land? I'm a recent migrant to this area and would be interested in hearing more about the challenges of this region. Where can I learn more about what you are doing?
betwixthewires 4y ago
I personally do live in the way described, and it's fantastic. Why does a person need a ton of private space? There's plenty of space outside, and life's more rewarding out there too. A space to sleep, shit, shower, shave and cook is everything a person needs. And the ability to go wherever is best for you with minimal difficulty is wonderful. My life got immeasurably better the day I started living like this, and I did it with low 4 figure capital investment. Imagine reducing housing costs by 2 orders of magnitude. Most people dont need what they think they need. The only thing I wish I had is ownership over the land I'm parked on, which is coming soon enough.

jaclaz 4y ago

Mobile tiny home which costs US$ 10,000 [1] according to the Author, that then proceeds to illustrate it with the picture of a non-mobile (and not so tiny) house that was estimated US$ 25,000 in 2016 [2] [1] What? [2] and which at first sight won't be anything less than US$ 50,000-60,000 today

moistly 4y ago
I just looked up tandem 10000lb flat deck trailers, e.g. suitable platform on which to build a tiny home. They’re about $5000 a pop. Maybe if you steal everything from a construction site, a tiny home could be built for $10K.
- toomuchtodo 4y ago
  Real talk, a tiny home we’ll equipped will run $40k to $100k; you only get close to the low end with lower end materials and supplying the labor yourself (I’ve helped build and haul to their final location more than one). With that said, the greatest challenge is the stigma of a trailer park. The local community NIMBYs fight hard to not permit new communities from being established (speaking as someone who optioned a parcel of land in central Florida for this purpose and had to go plead the case at planning meetings), and existing ones are getting snapped up by private equity and real estate investors to turn the financial screws on people who have nowhere else to go. https://www.npr.org/2022/05/11/1098193173/what-happens-when-private-equity-takes-over-mobile-home-parks https://www.npr.org/2022/05/11/1098193173/what-happens-when-... https://rejournals.com/investors-appetite-for-manufactured-housing-keeps-growing-during-pandemic/ https://rejournals.com/investors-appetite-for-manufactured-h... I think this model works as a coop or non profit land trust, where the resident owns the home but the community protects their stake in the lot. Think “A Tiny Home For Good” Tiny Home Park Edition. You need to defend against the Capital vultures. https://www.atinyhomeforgood.org/ https://www.atinyhomeforgood.org/ (Tangentially, someone from YC should reach out to the above non profit to have them go through their next non profit accelerator cycle)
  - notch656a 4y ago
    Tiny home dream for me died once I found out I couldn't park it as primary residence on residential zoned land in my city. Any big cities where you can do this and own the property? Paying rent for a house you own in the clear is a non-starter.
    - toomuchtodo 4y ago
      All zoning is local. You’ll have to research prospective locales to understand the nuance. Tiny homes kept on trailers are done for a reason; to be regulated as RVs instead of a fixed structured, avoiding typical ADU or structure to lot size ratio issues.
    - hattmall 4y ago
      You can build a permanent structure that's the bare minimum really cheaply and then just park the tiny home there, and that really only matters if you want to get grid utilities.
      - bombcar 4y ago
        “Bare minimum really cheaply” varies from a shack with power and no water to a three bedroom house with geothermal. It’s all down to localities.
    - lh7777 4y ago
      The article mentions a few: "In the last few years, some US cities made a surprising break with the mobile-exclusionary tradition by legalizing residence in RVs or tiny houses on wheels on residential lots. First Fresno, then Los Angeles and San Jose, and various cities & states now allow mobile Accessory Dwelling Units. Portland allowed one movable home per residential lot in the 2021 Shelter to Housing Continuum zoning reforms, and Oakland created a new residential type, “Vehicular Residential Facilities,” which allows multiple vehicle dwellings on sites with sufficient area."
  - xrd 4y ago
    Are you still in Central Florida? Maybe you never actually were, just optioned the land? I'm a recent migrant to this area and would be interested in hearing more about the challenges of this region. Where can I learn more about what you are doing?

betwixthewires 4y ago

I personally do live in the way described, and it's fantastic. Why does a person need a ton of private space? There's plenty of space outside, and life's more rewarding out there too. A space to sleep, shit, shower, shave and cook is everything a person needs. And the ability to go wherever is best for you with minimal difficulty is wonderful. My life got immeasurably better the day I started living like this, and I did it with low 4 figure capital investment. Imagine reducing housing costs by 2 orders of magnitude. Most people dont need what they think they need. The only thing I wish I had is ownership over the land I'm parked on, which is coming soon enough.