8 ms·

Not sure why it wouldn't open for you, but it opens fine in Chrome on Mac. I thought it would be some ridiculous 50 page legalese but it's actually only 1.5 pag

by cyral 4y ago

Not sure why it wouldn't open for you, but it opens fine in Chrome on Mac. I thought it would be some ridiculous 50 page legalese but it's actually only 1.5 pages long. it's basically a license similar to what you'd see on a Github repo.

soco 4y ago
But why PDF at all? Is there a reason to put the online license in a PDF? Or any other places, like the restaurant menus? is there anybody who wants/needs to print the license or the restaurant menu?
- bardworx 4y ago
  My guess? They use an agency to service their website and made the license in PDF so the org can change it without incurring additional cost of an update.
  - schwartzworld 4y ago
    To OPs point, a .TXT would work just as well.
    - bardworx 4y ago
      Orgs place a lot of value on control. A TXT, even if better, would be a hard sell. Especially in a 501(c), where optics matter and they are targeting a demographic that usually prefers PDFs.
  - bongobingo1 4y ago
    I think you probably meant to write "can't change it without".
    - bardworx 4y ago
      I was alluding that the Org has the ability to re-upload the pdf in a shared resource without the need of a developer. Vs making the license file a static page that would incur billable hours to update.
      - soco 4y ago
        I'm sure you can upload HTML files in shared resources as well. Or not?
- dual_dingo 4y ago
  I kind of understand it for restaurant menus. Both "real" restaurant and takeway places need to print actual menus and/or flyers, and it's just easier to create a PDF document and upload it to your website than it is to reformat the document to be useful as web page in many cases if you are not well versed in this. Since PDF readers in browsers got decent, this isn't too much of an issue anymore anyway, IMHO.
  - soco 4y ago
    Not an issue indeed if I go to the restaurant table with a computer. Which happens very rarely for me, if ever.
- anigbrowl 4y ago
  So organizations that publish documents can store it for legal purposes. A pdf has useful metadata that a text document does not, and can be easily authenticated. If there's a dispute everyone in the legal process understands what a pdf file is.
  - soco 4y ago
    I just wonder how do all other 99% of organizations where the license is a MD file only handle their court cases...
- solardev 4y ago
  > Or any other places, like the restaurant menus? is there anybody who wants/needs to print the license or the restaurant menu? Web devs are expensive, sadly, and not everyone has the patience to figure out the DIY platforms (Square, SquareSpace, Wix, etc.). It got a bit better during the pandemic when takeout took off. But generally restaurants need to print menus anyway, so it's just easier to upload that design as a PDF than to redo it for the web with labor they don't have, or paying for it with margins they don't have...
  - soco 4y ago
    Or rather, they just take their Word menu and "save as PDF". Although they could also "save as HTML" and replace the same file, right? But then the Word formatting would get messy because it wasn't thought for a web page, so here we are.
- GekkePrutser 4y ago
  I really hate those restaurants that only have QR codes on the table for menus. A restaurant is for eating and talking, not for messing around with my phone. I avoid those now. During Covid there was a slight point (though it was pretty soon proven that surface transmission was so minor a factor not to warrant such actions). But now we should just go back to normal menus.
  - KMnO4 4y ago
    Heh. I went to a sushi restaurant recently and sat down to an iPad menu. After ordering a few rolls and confirming the order, it was delivered by a robot[0]. After finishing the plates, I returned them to the robot which carried them away. I scanned a QR code on the table which allowed me to pay for everything from my phone. Curiously, I was presented with options to tip 18%, 20%, 30%, or other. I thought about it and tipped accordingly to the effort the waitress put into my experience. Shortly after, the manager came to me (essentially the first point of human interaction) and asked if there was anything wrong that caused me to tip 0%. So yes, I too really hate the direction restaurants are heading in. [0]: https://www.pudurobotics.com/product/detail/pudubot2 https://www.pudurobotics.com/product/detail/pudubot2
    - mjevans 4y ago
      I agree with tipping the robots (for whom service is always the same) N% of their wage; which is still 0. Tips should be _not-legal_ and proper wages for the workers should be _required_.
    - Zak 4y ago
      I'm curious who would get the tip in this scenario. The sushi chef? Ok, I guess. The restaurant owner? I'm going with 0%. The robot? Maybe if it can pass a Turing test.
      - verall 4y ago
        > The sushi chef? Yes, and most likely split with other cooks, host/hostess, and waitstaff for people that refuse to use the iPad. > The restaurant owner? Illegal in most states. What an iconoclast, refusing to tip hourly workers...
- Cthulhu_ 4y ago
  PDF works better when downloaded, sent over e-mail, printed to be used in a court case or hard archives, and has stood the test of time.
- stjohnswarts 4y ago
  99% of the browsers in use have a built in pdf reader these days.
  - soco 4y ago
    Which is exactly why I'm not complaining that I cannot open it. I'm complaining that the experience sucks - if you have a mobile phone you know what I mean. Unless you go with a computer in the restaurants, of course.
- lelanthran 4y ago
  > But why PDF at all? Is there a reason to put the online license in a PDF? Yes. It's so that you have a dated copy. An web-page with the license on it can be retroactively changed.
  - just-ok 4y ago
    Are you distinguishing between a PDF that downloads by default (rather than using an in-browser preview)? Because I’m that case, you could download the license page just the same.
    - lelanthran 4y ago
      > Are you distinguishing between a PDF that downloads by default (rather than using an in-browser preview)? Because I’m that case, you could download the license page just the same. The metadata on the license page does not offer the same guarantees as the metadata in the PDF. The PDF can even be signed; the license page cannot.
  - jeroenhd 4y ago
    You can save web pages as easily as you can save PDFs. You can also edit PDF files with common office tools. The only thing PDF works for is ensuring the rendered copy looks exactly the same everywhere and to add a signature but I don't see the value in those two options for this use case; if anything, this institution should let the user agrnt decide how the text is remdered best and we don't know their public key to validate their signature.

by cyral 4y ago

soco 4y ago

But why PDF at all? Is there a reason to put the online license in a PDF? Or any other places, like the restaurant menus? is there anybody who wants/needs to print the license or the restaurant menu?

bardworx 4y ago
My guess? They use an agency to service their website and made the license in PDF so the org can change it without incurring additional cost of an update.
- schwartzworld 4y ago
  To OPs point, a .TXT would work just as well.
  - bardworx 4y ago
    Orgs place a lot of value on control. A TXT, even if better, would be a hard sell. Especially in a 501(c), where optics matter and they are targeting a demographic that usually prefers PDFs.
- bongobingo1 4y ago
  I think you probably meant to write "can't change it without".
  - bardworx 4y ago
    I was alluding that the Org has the ability to re-upload the pdf in a shared resource without the need of a developer. Vs making the license file a static page that would incur billable hours to update.
    - soco 4y ago
      I'm sure you can upload HTML files in shared resources as well. Or not?
dual_dingo 4y ago
I kind of understand it for restaurant menus. Both "real" restaurant and takeway places need to print actual menus and/or flyers, and it's just easier to create a PDF document and upload it to your website than it is to reformat the document to be useful as web page in many cases if you are not well versed in this. Since PDF readers in browsers got decent, this isn't too much of an issue anymore anyway, IMHO.
- soco 4y ago
  Not an issue indeed if I go to the restaurant table with a computer. Which happens very rarely for me, if ever.
anigbrowl 4y ago
So organizations that publish documents can store it for legal purposes. A pdf has useful metadata that a text document does not, and can be easily authenticated. If there's a dispute everyone in the legal process understands what a pdf file is.
- soco 4y ago
  I just wonder how do all other 99% of organizations where the license is a MD file only handle their court cases...
solardev 4y ago
> Or any other places, like the restaurant menus? is there anybody who wants/needs to print the license or the restaurant menu? Web devs are expensive, sadly, and not everyone has the patience to figure out the DIY platforms (Square, SquareSpace, Wix, etc.). It got a bit better during the pandemic when takeout took off. But generally restaurants need to print menus anyway, so it's just easier to upload that design as a PDF than to redo it for the web with labor they don't have, or paying for it with margins they don't have...
- soco 4y ago
  Or rather, they just take their Word menu and "save as PDF". Although they could also "save as HTML" and replace the same file, right? But then the Word formatting would get messy because it wasn't thought for a web page, so here we are.
GekkePrutser 4y ago
I really hate those restaurants that only have QR codes on the table for menus. A restaurant is for eating and talking, not for messing around with my phone. I avoid those now. During Covid there was a slight point (though it was pretty soon proven that surface transmission was so minor a factor not to warrant such actions). But now we should just go back to normal menus.
- KMnO4 4y ago
  Heh. I went to a sushi restaurant recently and sat down to an iPad menu. After ordering a few rolls and confirming the order, it was delivered by a robot[0]. After finishing the plates, I returned them to the robot which carried them away. I scanned a QR code on the table which allowed me to pay for everything from my phone. Curiously, I was presented with options to tip 18%, 20%, 30%, or other. I thought about it and tipped accordingly to the effort the waitress put into my experience. Shortly after, the manager came to me (essentially the first point of human interaction) and asked if there was anything wrong that caused me to tip 0%. So yes, I too really hate the direction restaurants are heading in. [0]: https://www.pudurobotics.com/product/detail/pudubot2 https://www.pudurobotics.com/product/detail/pudubot2
  - mjevans 4y ago
    I agree with tipping the robots (for whom service is always the same) N% of their wage; which is still 0. Tips should be _not-legal_ and proper wages for the workers should be _required_.
  - Zak 4y ago
    I'm curious who would get the tip in this scenario. The sushi chef? Ok, I guess. The restaurant owner? I'm going with 0%. The robot? Maybe if it can pass a Turing test.
    - verall 4y ago
      > The sushi chef? Yes, and most likely split with other cooks, host/hostess, and waitstaff for people that refuse to use the iPad. > The restaurant owner? Illegal in most states. What an iconoclast, refusing to tip hourly workers...
Cthulhu_ 4y ago
PDF works better when downloaded, sent over e-mail, printed to be used in a court case or hard archives, and has stood the test of time.
stjohnswarts 4y ago
99% of the browsers in use have a built in pdf reader these days.
- soco 4y ago
  Which is exactly why I'm not complaining that I cannot open it. I'm complaining that the experience sucks - if you have a mobile phone you know what I mean. Unless you go with a computer in the restaurants, of course.
lelanthran 4y ago
> But why PDF at all? Is there a reason to put the online license in a PDF? Yes. It's so that you have a dated copy. An web-page with the license on it can be retroactively changed.
- just-ok 4y ago
  Are you distinguishing between a PDF that downloads by default (rather than using an in-browser preview)? Because I’m that case, you could download the license page just the same.
  - lelanthran 4y ago
    > Are you distinguishing between a PDF that downloads by default (rather than using an in-browser preview)? Because I’m that case, you could download the license page just the same. The metadata on the license page does not offer the same guarantees as the metadata in the PDF. The PDF can even be signed; the license page cannot.
- jeroenhd 4y ago
  You can save web pages as easily as you can save PDFs. You can also edit PDF files with common office tools. The only thing PDF works for is ensuring the rendered copy looks exactly the same everywhere and to add a signature but I don't see the value in those two options for this use case; if anything, this institution should let the user agrnt decide how the text is remdered best and we don't know their public key to validate their signature.