8 ms·

My Google Pixel 6 can already do this. I can see L5 and L1 GPS satellites at the same time right now. I can also see a lot of other systems ones.

calciphus 4y ago
It's not just the pixel 6, it goes clear back to the pixel 4, galaxy s20, and many more. A totally excellent list of supported and tested devices is at the latter part of this article. https://barbeau.medium.com/tl-dr-dual-frequency-gnss-on-android-table-of-devices-9be4bbb83a7b https://barbeau.medium.com/tl-dr-dual-frequency-gnss-on-andr...
oneplane 4y ago
I'm sure once L5 has an actual complete deployment it will be used by even more devices.
MilaM 4y ago
How is the positioning accuracy outdoors? My iPhone 13 is rather disappointing in this regard. Even in my garden, with a clear sky, Maps.app will show my location at least 5 m off my actual position.
- orev 4y ago
  5m is within the design spec of L1 GPS, so you’re getting it as designed. GPS was never designed to be mm level accurate. The new L5 frequency aims for 30cm accuracy.
  - capableweb 4y ago
    > GPS was never designed to be mm level accurate Kind of. Consumer/public GPS was never to be that accurate. Galileo for example, has the following accuracy: 1 metre (public), 1 cm (encrypted) I'm sure the same applies to other systems too.
    - londons_explore 4y ago
      I don't really see the strategic importance of 1 meter Vs 1 cm positioning... Is the enemy missile going to miss the bunker because it hit 1 meter off? Or the enemy built their airport 1 meter wonky because they didn't have access to 1 cm level accuracy?
      - capableweb 4y ago
        GPS might have been a military invention, but its uses reaches further out today. I think the purpose of Galileo's encrypted GPS is not to prevent military strikes against European nations, but to be able to offer more precision as a commercial service, making a profit. Basically, companies who use GPS for measurements or what have you, can pay money and get access to improved accuracy.
        londons_explore 4y ago
        But since GPS is a broadcast service, there is no way to offer encrypted service widely (ie. To a random app which pays for better GPS accuracy) without someone decapping/exploiting a chip in the phone and leaking the rolling encryption key via a web service for everyone.
        gsich 4y ago
        Should be possible. Encrypted DVB-S providers can also lock/unlock single smartcards.
        londons_explore 4y ago
        And it is pretty common that said smartcards get 'cracked', and then they have to reissue new cards to all viewers and switch to a new master crypto key. If even one legacy card remained in use, then attackers could use that card to dump the key used for the video stream and publish it online.
  - joecool1029 4y ago
    It is possible on quite a few modern Android phones to access raw receiver data and do post-processing using a rinet file to get mm-level accuracy. It's a little over my head since this isn't my industry. One of Google's more obscure Android apps to be used with it: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.location.gps.gnsslogger&gl=US https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.and... GPSTest also carries some logging functionality to do the same: https://github.com/barbeau/gpstest https://github.com/barbeau/gpstest
- dhsysusbsjsi 4y ago
  Have you considered that the underlying map may be out? I remember (non-academic) researching this and looking through past Google Earth imagery and its about a 2 metre error.
  - MilaM 4y ago
    When I compare Apple Maps and Google Maps, both show me in the same spot relative to the aerial imagery. Could of course be, that both apps are off. I think it's more likely it's the GPS accuracy. I know that regular GPS is not super accurate. But my impression was, that chipsets which support Galileo in addition to GPS, would be more accurate than 5-10 m.
- shaky-carrousel 4y ago
  I live in a building. From my window I can see 28 satellites and I have a 2m precision radius.
Sakos 4y ago
How do you check what satellites you can see?
- ugjka 4y ago
  https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.android.gpstest.osmdroid/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.android.gpstest.osmdroid...
  - shaky-carrousel 4y ago
    That's right, I use that app :)
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
TedShiller 4y ago

calciphus 4y ago

It's not just the pixel 6, it goes clear back to the pixel 4, galaxy s20, and many more. A totally excellent list of supported and tested devices is at the latter part of this article. https://barbeau.medium.com/tl-dr-dual-frequency-gnss-on-android-table-of-devices-9be4bbb83a7b https://barbeau.medium.com/tl-dr-dual-frequency-gnss-on-andr...

oneplane 4y ago

I'm sure once L5 has an actual complete deployment it will be used by even more devices.

MilaM 4y ago

How is the positioning accuracy outdoors? My iPhone 13 is rather disappointing in this regard. Even in my garden, with a clear sky, Maps.app will show my location at least 5 m off my actual position.

orev 4y ago
5m is within the design spec of L1 GPS, so you’re getting it as designed. GPS was never designed to be mm level accurate. The new L5 frequency aims for 30cm accuracy.
- capableweb 4y ago
  > GPS was never designed to be mm level accurate Kind of. Consumer/public GPS was never to be that accurate. Galileo for example, has the following accuracy: 1 metre (public), 1 cm (encrypted) I'm sure the same applies to other systems too.
  - londons_explore 4y ago
    I don't really see the strategic importance of 1 meter Vs 1 cm positioning... Is the enemy missile going to miss the bunker because it hit 1 meter off? Or the enemy built their airport 1 meter wonky because they didn't have access to 1 cm level accuracy?
    - capableweb 4y ago
      GPS might have been a military invention, but its uses reaches further out today. I think the purpose of Galileo's encrypted GPS is not to prevent military strikes against European nations, but to be able to offer more precision as a commercial service, making a profit. Basically, companies who use GPS for measurements or what have you, can pay money and get access to improved accuracy.
      - londons_explore 4y ago
        But since GPS is a broadcast service, there is no way to offer encrypted service widely (ie. To a random app which pays for better GPS accuracy) without someone decapping/exploiting a chip in the phone and leaking the rolling encryption key via a web service for everyone.
        gsich 4y ago
        Should be possible. Encrypted DVB-S providers can also lock/unlock single smartcards.
        londons_explore 4y ago
        And it is pretty common that said smartcards get 'cracked', and then they have to reissue new cards to all viewers and switch to a new master crypto key. If even one legacy card remained in use, then attackers could use that card to dump the key used for the video stream and publish it online.
- joecool1029 4y ago
  It is possible on quite a few modern Android phones to access raw receiver data and do post-processing using a rinet file to get mm-level accuracy. It's a little over my head since this isn't my industry. One of Google's more obscure Android apps to be used with it: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.android.apps.location.gps.gnsslogger&gl=US https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.google.and... GPSTest also carries some logging functionality to do the same: https://github.com/barbeau/gpstest https://github.com/barbeau/gpstest
dhsysusbsjsi 4y ago
Have you considered that the underlying map may be out? I remember (non-academic) researching this and looking through past Google Earth imagery and its about a 2 metre error.
- MilaM 4y ago
  When I compare Apple Maps and Google Maps, both show me in the same spot relative to the aerial imagery. Could of course be, that both apps are off. I think it's more likely it's the GPS accuracy. I know that regular GPS is not super accurate. But my impression was, that chipsets which support Galileo in addition to GPS, would be more accurate than 5-10 m.
shaky-carrousel 4y ago
I live in a building. From my window I can see 28 satellites and I have a 2m precision radius.

Sakos 4y ago

How do you check what satellites you can see?

ugjka 4y ago
https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.android.gpstest.osmdroid/ https://f-droid.org/en/packages/com.android.gpstest.osmdroid...
- shaky-carrousel 4y ago
  That's right, I use that app :)

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

TedShiller 4y ago