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As I'm sure you are aware, the proposed change was for files synced to iCloud. This puts it in the same boat as the recent Google Photos incident which you appe

by wfme 4y ago

As I'm sure you are aware, the proposed change was for files synced to iCloud. This puts it in the same boat as the recent Google Photos incident which you appear to be ok with. But, as you noted, Apple backed down on the proposal, so assuming that you still hold that cloud scanning is ok, Apple's approach, at least in this regard is at worst equal.

judge2020 4y ago
Apple doesn't seem to do any cloud CSAM scanning of iCloud Photos, at least according to Hacker Factor: > Of all of the companies identified by NCMEC, I only saw one that had an unexpected decrease in reporting: Apple. According to NMEC, Apple submitted 205 reports in 2019 (a third my my reporting volume). Apple increased a little, to 265 in 2020, but then dropped in 2021 to only 160 reports. That's nearly a 22% decrease over two years! note: later on they say: > Granted, Apple only rolled out this new functionality in mid-December 2021. However, based on their volume of traffic, I would expect them to (at minimum) submit a few hundred reports to NCMEC each week. I cannot fathom any legal or technical reason why Apple is not submitting more reports to NCMEC. It's as if these laws apply to everyone except Apple. https://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/955-NCMEC-2021-Reporting.html https://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/955-NC...
gpm 4y ago
I'm fundamentally not ok with my device acting against my interests. This doesn't happen with Google, my android phone does not act against my interests. Meanwhile Google's servers do act against my interests (as do Apples servers - though not as effectively since more content is encrypted), but I don't own them, so what can I really expect? Apple only backed down temporarily, their communication has been "we still plan to do this, but later". Given the nature of OS updates, that means you can't buy an IPhone today and be confident that it won't decide to start spying on you tomorrow.
MBCook 4y ago
Apple’s solution was not like Google’s. Google used AI to try to find CSAM, thus it flagged the father’s picture taken to send to a doctor. Apple’s solution was to check against a database of known abuse images. It would not be capable of flagging a new photo someone took. Of the two solutions Google’s may find more offenders, but it would clearly find FAR more false positives. The only way for a false positive in the Apple system is for two unrelated images to have identical perceptual hashes (with multiple algorithms?). Plus there was no reporting until a threshold of multiple (10+) matches were found, so one false positive wouldn’t do it.
- Sirened 4y ago
  > Plus there was no reporting until a threshold of multiple (10+) matches were found, so one false positive wouldn’t do it Not even that, the photos were not visible to some trusted human party until 10+ matches were found. That is, photos were not auto reported, they were only decryptable after the threshold was crossed and then they are reported after being reviewed by a human

by wfme 4y ago

judge2020 4y ago

Apple doesn't seem to do any cloud CSAM scanning of iCloud Photos, at least according to Hacker Factor: > Of all of the companies identified by NCMEC, I only saw one that had an unexpected decrease in reporting: Apple. According to NMEC, Apple submitted 205 reports in 2019 (a third my my reporting volume). Apple increased a little, to 265 in 2020, but then dropped in 2021 to only 160 reports. That's nearly a 22% decrease over two years! note: later on they say: > Granted, Apple only rolled out this new functionality in mid-December 2021. However, based on their volume of traffic, I would expect them to (at minimum) submit a few hundred reports to NCMEC each week. I cannot fathom any legal or technical reason why Apple is not submitting more reports to NCMEC. It's as if these laws apply to everyone except Apple. https://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/955-NCMEC-2021-Reporting.html https://www.hackerfactor.com/blog/index.php?/archives/955-NC...

gpm 4y ago

I'm fundamentally not ok with my device acting against my interests. This doesn't happen with Google, my android phone does not act against my interests. Meanwhile Google's servers do act against my interests (as do Apples servers - though not as effectively since more content is encrypted), but I don't own them, so what can I really expect? Apple only backed down temporarily, their communication has been "we still plan to do this, but later". Given the nature of OS updates, that means you can't buy an IPhone today and be confident that it won't decide to start spying on you tomorrow.

MBCook 4y ago

Apple’s solution was not like Google’s. Google used AI to try to find CSAM, thus it flagged the father’s picture taken to send to a doctor. Apple’s solution was to check against a database of known abuse images. It would not be capable of flagging a new photo someone took. Of the two solutions Google’s may find more offenders, but it would clearly find FAR more false positives. The only way for a false positive in the Apple system is for two unrelated images to have identical perceptual hashes (with multiple algorithms?). Plus there was no reporting until a threshold of multiple (10+) matches were found, so one false positive wouldn’t do it.

Sirened 4y ago
> Plus there was no reporting until a threshold of multiple (10+) matches were found, so one false positive wouldn’t do it Not even that, the photos were not visible to some trusted human party until 10+ matches were found. That is, photos were not auto reported, they were only decryptable after the threshold was crossed and then they are reported after being reviewed by a human