5 ms·

It's analogous to the police acting on a warrant to close a store front selling counterfeit goods There is no warrant. This is not a civilian police force a

It's analogous to the police acting on a warrant to close a store front selling counterfeit goods There is no warrant. This is not a civilian police force acting legally. This is an arm of the federal government acting unilaterally implementing authoritarian control over public communications and information. I'm amazed that Americans are comfortable with their leaders going down this road. It's been done before and has rarely ended well.

GHFigs 15y ago
There is no warrant. Yes, there is. The issue is whether anybody should have the power to grant such a warrant, not that warrants were not obtained.
- wavephorm 15y ago
  What warrant? Nobody is being charged with a crime. The government is just shutting down websites it wants to without any due process.
  - GHFigs 15y ago
    What warrant? A seizure warrant, as signed by a judge. (Compare "search warrant", "arrest warrant"). Nobody is being charged with a crime. That's not what a warrant is. Warrants are issued on the basis of probable cause. You probably understand this already with regard to search warrants: a prosecutor doesn't have to have filed charges against a person before the police can obtain a search warrant in the course of investigating the crime. The police only need to show that there is cause to conduct the search. But more to the point of people not being charged: I'm not conversant in every relevant detail, but I presume the reason nobody is being charged in these cases is that the owners of these domains are unknown and outside of the US, besides. But again: nobody being charged doesn't mean warrants weren't issued for the seizures. The two are not the same thing.
- GHFigs 15y ago
  It confuses me that this particular comment was found objectionable by at least six people. You guys are weird, sometimes. Here is an example of a warrant of seizure issued by the United States District Court, Southern District of New York to "Any Department of Homeland Security, Immigration and Customs Enforcement Special Agent or any other law enforcement officer authorized by law" to seize certain domains: http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/06/30/Warrant.pdf http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/06/30/Warrant.pdf I apologize for not expending the energy to produce a copy of every warrant for every domain ever seized, but I am not personally burdened with such indomitable doubts as to their existence that others seem to be.
  - wavephorm 15y ago
    Thanks for finding this. I was under the impression the FBI was just moving in like thugs. Still reading this warrant, it is so vague what the charges are. And I wonder, among all the people that had domains seized, were any found not-guilty and had their domains returned? Somehow I doubt it.
animal 15y ago
Please don't assume every American is comfortable with this. On the contrary, I and most of my friends are fucking pissed. I've written my representatives, but I doubt it will do any good. I feel pretty helpless honestly.
- duairc 15y ago
  Of course writing to your representatives will do no good. This whole world is completely insane. "Your" representatives couldn't fix it even if they wanted to. Revolution is the only way out of this mess.
  - Jach 15y ago
    What kind of revolution? Why do you think this time things will end up different, when revolutions have brought us to where we are?
    - rickmb 15y ago
      Revolutions (and maybe more importantly: the threat of revolt) have brought us quite far from the days of absolute rulers that could do whatever they liked to the population. In other words: things will end up different because revolutions (amongst other change agents) have brought us to where we are, which still is a lot better than were we started.
  - el_presidente 15y ago
    "Every revolution evaporates and leaves behind only the slime of a new bureaucracy."

GHFigs 15y ago

There is no warrant. Yes, there is. The issue is whether anybody should have the power to grant such a warrant, not that warrants were not obtained.

wavephorm 15y ago
What warrant? Nobody is being charged with a crime. The government is just shutting down websites it wants to without any due process.
- GHFigs 15y ago
  What warrant? A seizure warrant, as signed by a judge. (Compare "search warrant", "arrest warrant"). Nobody is being charged with a crime. That's not what a warrant is. Warrants are issued on the basis of probable cause. You probably understand this already with regard to search warrants: a prosecutor doesn't have to have filed charges against a person before the police can obtain a search warrant in the course of investigating the crime. The police only need to show that there is cause to conduct the search. But more to the point of people not being charged: I'm not conversant in every relevant detail, but I presume the reason nobody is being charged in these cases is that the owners of these domains are unknown and outside of the US, besides. But again: nobody being charged doesn't mean warrants weren't issued for the seizures. The two are not the same thing.
GHFigs 15y ago
It confuses me that this particular comment was found objectionable by at least six people. You guys are weird, sometimes. Here is an example of a warrant of seizure issued by the United States District Court, Southern District of New York to "Any Department of Homeland Security, Immigration and Customs Enforcement Special Agent or any other law enforcement officer authorized by law" to seize certain domains: http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/06/30/Warrant.pdf http://www.courthousenews.com/2010/06/30/Warrant.pdf I apologize for not expending the energy to produce a copy of every warrant for every domain ever seized, but I am not personally burdened with such indomitable doubts as to their existence that others seem to be.
- wavephorm 15y ago
  Thanks for finding this. I was under the impression the FBI was just moving in like thugs. Still reading this warrant, it is so vague what the charges are. And I wonder, among all the people that had domains seized, were any found not-guilty and had their domains returned? Somehow I doubt it.

animal 15y ago

Please don't assume every American is comfortable with this. On the contrary, I and most of my friends are fucking pissed. I've written my representatives, but I doubt it will do any good. I feel pretty helpless honestly.

duairc 15y ago
Of course writing to your representatives will do no good. This whole world is completely insane. "Your" representatives couldn't fix it even if they wanted to. Revolution is the only way out of this mess.
- Jach 15y ago
  What kind of revolution? Why do you think this time things will end up different, when revolutions have brought us to where we are?
  - rickmb 15y ago
    Revolutions (and maybe more importantly: the threat of revolt) have brought us quite far from the days of absolute rulers that could do whatever they liked to the population. In other words: things will end up different because revolutions (amongst other change agents) have brought us to where we are, which still is a lot better than were we started.
- el_presidente 15y ago
  "Every revolution evaporates and leaves behind only the slime of a new bureaucracy."