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Yes, and put millions of people out of work so they can starve and live in tents I'm not saying your wrong, only that raising the price of fuel raises the pric

Yes, and put millions of people out of work so they can starve and live in tents I'm not saying your wrong, only that raising the price of fuel raises the price of everything else. Fuel prices go up, shipping prices go up, shipping prices go up, product prices go up, product prices go up, less people can afford to life. Company expenses go up, company looks for ways to cut expenses, often by lowering employment, etc... VS coming up with cleaner and cheaper ways to fuel things, then everything goes in the other direction. Cheaper fuel = cheaper shipping = cheaper products = more poor people can eat. Companies make more money they can hire more people, etc... I know that's easier said than done, just pointing out raising the price of fuel is not a simple solution beacuse it has extreme consequences.

SamReidHughes 4y ago
There are a ton of taxes and fees that could be reduced because they're replaced by the revenue. Sales taxes and payroll taxes, for starters.
endominus 4y ago
I'm always wary of just-so stories. It's easy to pull them in any direction one wants. Cheaper fuel -> lower prices -> greater consumption -> more reliance on extraction of limited resources -> less ability to move off those resources/find alternatives without destroying the global economy -> disaster when we hit "peak whatever." The pandemic has shown how fragile the global economy has become due to the massive network of linkages that have grown between what could be relatively self-sufficient countries. A ship crashing in single canal sent commodity prices worldwide through the roof for months! There was a comic I read a while back during the 2008 financial crisis, describing the banking sector as a group of wizards building a massive tower in a town. Eventually, it grows too large, wobbling and nearing collapse. The wizards beg the townspeople for help. The townspeople say this is the natural consequence of their actions, but the wizards counter that should their tower fall, it is large enough to do significant damage to the town as well. Thus galvanized, the town gathers together and shores up the foundations of the tower, securing it. At which point the wizards promptly go back to making it even taller and grander, because no one ever learns a lesson. People are extremely averse to direct negative consequences of actions, but are much more nonchalant about indirect negative consequences, especially of inaction (see; the trolley problem). There is always hope of a miracle cure. That is the thrust of your argument; strong action now may fix the issue, but cause widespread suffering in the short term. Whereas the status quo is a slowly boiling pot, and perhaps someone will find a way to turn off the heat while we languish here, but more likely someone won't and waiting will lead to an even worse economic outcome when global supply chains are disrupted even more forcefully than by a simple tax hike.
WalterBright 4y ago
We tax everything else without wrecking the economy.
- asiachick 4y ago
  I didn't say taxes would wreck the economy. I said it would affect the poor. The cost will be passed on to the consumer. I can afford that cost but lots of poor can't You can easily find tons of articles about how inflation hurts the poor most. A carbon tax has the exact same effect as inflation as it raises the price of everything. Vs say an progressive income tax. https://www.npr.org/2022/05/11/1097966775/inflation-poor-income-inequality-biden-federal-reserve https://www.npr.org/2022/05/11/1097966775/inflation-poor-inc...
thinkcontext 4y ago
Europe has a carbon price and it hasn't wrecked their economy. They of course have other energy related problems but those aren't related to their carbon price.
imtringued 4y ago
People live in tents because land is too expensive and local homeowners prevent affordable housing construction.

SamReidHughes 4y ago

There are a ton of taxes and fees that could be reduced because they're replaced by the revenue. Sales taxes and payroll taxes, for starters.

endominus 4y ago

I'm always wary of just-so stories. It's easy to pull them in any direction one wants. Cheaper fuel -> lower prices -> greater consumption -> more reliance on extraction of limited resources -> less ability to move off those resources/find alternatives without destroying the global economy -> disaster when we hit "peak whatever." The pandemic has shown how fragile the global economy has become due to the massive network of linkages that have grown between what could be relatively self-sufficient countries. A ship crashing in single canal sent commodity prices worldwide through the roof for months! There was a comic I read a while back during the 2008 financial crisis, describing the banking sector as a group of wizards building a massive tower in a town. Eventually, it grows too large, wobbling and nearing collapse. The wizards beg the townspeople for help. The townspeople say this is the natural consequence of their actions, but the wizards counter that should their tower fall, it is large enough to do significant damage to the town as well. Thus galvanized, the town gathers together and shores up the foundations of the tower, securing it. At which point the wizards promptly go back to making it even taller and grander, because no one ever learns a lesson. People are extremely averse to direct negative consequences of actions, but are much more nonchalant about indirect negative consequences, especially of inaction (see; the trolley problem). There is always hope of a miracle cure. That is the thrust of your argument; strong action now may fix the issue, but cause widespread suffering in the short term. Whereas the status quo is a slowly boiling pot, and perhaps someone will find a way to turn off the heat while we languish here, but more likely someone won't and waiting will lead to an even worse economic outcome when global supply chains are disrupted even more forcefully than by a simple tax hike.

WalterBright 4y ago

We tax everything else without wrecking the economy.

asiachick 4y ago
I didn't say taxes would wreck the economy. I said it would affect the poor. The cost will be passed on to the consumer. I can afford that cost but lots of poor can't You can easily find tons of articles about how inflation hurts the poor most. A carbon tax has the exact same effect as inflation as it raises the price of everything. Vs say an progressive income tax. https://www.npr.org/2022/05/11/1097966775/inflation-poor-income-inequality-biden-federal-reserve https://www.npr.org/2022/05/11/1097966775/inflation-poor-inc...

thinkcontext 4y ago

Europe has a carbon price and it hasn't wrecked their economy. They of course have other energy related problems but those aren't related to their carbon price.

imtringued 4y ago

People live in tents because land is too expensive and local homeowners prevent affordable housing construction.