4 ms·

Excellent news; the nonsense that car dealers have been able to get away with since the start of the pandemic is simply ridiculous. Perhaps most frustrating is

Excellent news; the nonsense that car dealers have been able to get away with since the start of the pandemic is simply ridiculous. Perhaps most frustrating is the complete uselessness of posted prices, as many dealerships note in very fine print that their advertised prices are only valid for purchases financed through the dealership (no doubt at ridiculous APRs.) "Doc fees" are also something I would love to see eliminated—sometimes upwards of $500 for the dealer to submit some online forms to the DMV...

nradov 4y ago
I'm not going to defend deceptive dealership sales practices, but as long as you have a good credit rating they often offer very good APRs. Most manufacturers have captive finance arms to juice their sales numbers and the financing terms can be better than what you would get from an independent lender. For example, Toyota is offering 2.49% on a 4-year loan which is lower than the US Treasury yield so if you do have to buy a car then you can literally make a profit by borrowing from them.
- kube-system 4y ago
  There are still a number of 0% financing deals out there, if you can find the cars they're offered on.
- staringback 4y ago
  With the exclusion of the recent unprecedented times, that brand new car would depreciate far more rapidly than your perceived profit hedging against inflation.
  - to11mtm 4y ago
    I mean, USUALLY sure. There are exceptions to some extent and I've been lucky in this regard [0], but in general I'd say the problem is people just don't care. I -do- tend to shop on overall depreciation/resale value and try to order my cars in a way that while I completely intend to drive it into the ground, I will avoid any creature features that don't help with long term value or are too rich for my blood. [1] Also while GP is somewhat overstating their case, that depreciation hit is gonna happen if you pay cash anyway. It's not 'hedging against inflation' so much as 'minimizing interest paid on depreciation'. I will also say there are cases where perhaps it could make some level of sense. I'm kinda an odd duck and fell into this boat; My 10 year old car with age and a bad^bad oil change gets 18-24MPG for a good part of the year now, and only takes 91+. I switched to a Hybrid and the gas savings alone covers the majority of my payment. [0] 3 of the 4 new cars I've bought fell into this range. The first was a Saturn I flew to Texas to grab, it had no A/C so I got it for a steal. The second was A car I bought 10 years ago with ~10% down was only 'underwater' for about 6 months of a 72 month loan. The latest was the start of this year, but I'm confident that even after things subside it will still hold value fairly well. [1] Special infotainment systems, upgraded audio and remote start come to mind. People don't particularly shop for most infotainment systems on used cars. Upgraded audio is likely better handled by a trustworthy local shop if you really want it. Remote start just seems overpriced by most manufacturers, and IMO for most people (barring a medical need for the climate to be in a certain state immediately) another sign of society's environmental disregard.
kyleblarson 4y ago
I generally hate treating anyone like a bad person but I figured out about 15 years ago that car dealers are only in it to extract as much money out of you as possible and there's no need to treat them as nice people. I've had success with my last few trucks emailing a dealer when I see the truck in stock that I want, saying "Attached please see pictures of my trade in, here's the VIN, here's the mileage. Please tell me the exact amount I will need to bring with me to your dealership in a cashier's check to get the new truck. I will only reply to one more email with a yes / no response. I will also not do any sort of credit check at your dealership so know that going in. I will walk away if your finance person claims that I have to do one."
- abawany 4y ago
  Hopefully they are on their last hurrah after exploiting current customers with their nasty markups, including for pre-orders, due to the current shortages. Looking forward to seeing how Ford executes on its plans to get them out of the loop: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/06/ford-wants-to-sell-evs-online-only-with-no-dealer-markups-says-ceo-farley/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/06/ford-wants-to-sell-evs-... .
woobar 4y ago
Submitting forms to the DMV is a separate line item (Title and Registration). Doc fee is just profit in disguise.

nradov 4y ago

I'm not going to defend deceptive dealership sales practices, but as long as you have a good credit rating they often offer very good APRs. Most manufacturers have captive finance arms to juice their sales numbers and the financing terms can be better than what you would get from an independent lender. For example, Toyota is offering 2.49% on a 4-year loan which is lower than the US Treasury yield so if you do have to buy a car then you can literally make a profit by borrowing from them.

kube-system 4y ago
There are still a number of 0% financing deals out there, if you can find the cars they're offered on.
staringback 4y ago
With the exclusion of the recent unprecedented times, that brand new car would depreciate far more rapidly than your perceived profit hedging against inflation.
- to11mtm 4y ago
  I mean, USUALLY sure. There are exceptions to some extent and I've been lucky in this regard [0], but in general I'd say the problem is people just don't care. I -do- tend to shop on overall depreciation/resale value and try to order my cars in a way that while I completely intend to drive it into the ground, I will avoid any creature features that don't help with long term value or are too rich for my blood. [1] Also while GP is somewhat overstating their case, that depreciation hit is gonna happen if you pay cash anyway. It's not 'hedging against inflation' so much as 'minimizing interest paid on depreciation'. I will also say there are cases where perhaps it could make some level of sense. I'm kinda an odd duck and fell into this boat; My 10 year old car with age and a bad^bad oil change gets 18-24MPG for a good part of the year now, and only takes 91+. I switched to a Hybrid and the gas savings alone covers the majority of my payment. [0] 3 of the 4 new cars I've bought fell into this range. The first was a Saturn I flew to Texas to grab, it had no A/C so I got it for a steal. The second was A car I bought 10 years ago with ~10% down was only 'underwater' for about 6 months of a 72 month loan. The latest was the start of this year, but I'm confident that even after things subside it will still hold value fairly well. [1] Special infotainment systems, upgraded audio and remote start come to mind. People don't particularly shop for most infotainment systems on used cars. Upgraded audio is likely better handled by a trustworthy local shop if you really want it. Remote start just seems overpriced by most manufacturers, and IMO for most people (barring a medical need for the climate to be in a certain state immediately) another sign of society's environmental disregard.

kyleblarson 4y ago

I generally hate treating anyone like a bad person but I figured out about 15 years ago that car dealers are only in it to extract as much money out of you as possible and there's no need to treat them as nice people. I've had success with my last few trucks emailing a dealer when I see the truck in stock that I want, saying "Attached please see pictures of my trade in, here's the VIN, here's the mileage. Please tell me the exact amount I will need to bring with me to your dealership in a cashier's check to get the new truck. I will only reply to one more email with a yes / no response. I will also not do any sort of credit check at your dealership so know that going in. I will walk away if your finance person claims that I have to do one."

abawany 4y ago
Hopefully they are on their last hurrah after exploiting current customers with their nasty markups, including for pre-orders, due to the current shortages. Looking forward to seeing how Ford executes on its plans to get them out of the loop: https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/06/ford-wants-to-sell-evs-online-only-with-no-dealer-markups-says-ceo-farley/ https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/06/ford-wants-to-sell-evs-... .

woobar 4y ago

Submitting forms to the DMV is a separate line item (Title and Registration). Doc fee is just profit in disguise.