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Scary. This past year I went from seeing Climate Change as a "challenge to be overcome" to something that is simply happening during my lifetime. I suddenly re

Scary. This past year I went from seeing Climate Change as a "challenge to be overcome" to something that is simply happening during my lifetime. I suddenly realised that the truth is, in 20 years time 30+ degrees Summer Days will be completely normal in the Netherlands. I was jokingly asking myself when Switzerland will introduce the Siesta. I my attitudes went from Denial to Activism to Acceptance. Interesting how the mind works. Anybody else experiencing an attitude change?

CalRobert 4y ago
My wife and I are very conflicted about moving to Utrecht because we very much want to live in a bike-friendly city where our kids can be independent (where we are now, Ireland, is horrible for this) but we also want somewhere that isn't too hot in 30 years. The Nordics might manage to have both?
- LunaSea 4y ago
  I would imagine that the rising ocean levels would be more concerning
- Tade0 4y ago
  > where our kids can be independent (where we are now, Ireland, is horrible for this) Could you elaborate?
  - ryukafalz 4y ago
    Having not been to Ireland but relating to this a lot in the US, my guess is it’s about biking not generally being safe. Kids can’t drive, but in the US at least we’ve built a ton of places where you basically have to drive to get around, so parents end up shuttling their kids around to wherever they want to go.
    - Tade0 4y ago
      I've looked at a few random points in Irish cities and they don't seem to be any different than your typical European urban landscape. There are narrow streets, low-speed zones, even bike paths. Where's the horrible part?
      - ryukafalz 4y ago
        I’m looking around street view in Dublin and it looks similar to my own city (Philadelphia) in a lot of ways. Narrow side streets yes, but it seems where there are bike lanes they’re extremely unprotected/not even buffered, and there are plenty of wide streets without bike infrastructure of any sort. And ultimately you do usually need to be on a main road some of the time when going to many places. (In Dublin’s case I notice there’s a river running through town that only the larger streets seem to cross.) Compared to Utrecht (which was the initial point of comparison here), it looks awful for cycling.
      - CalRobert 4y ago
        The main thing is that Ireland has far more suburban sprawl and the bike infrastructure is almost entirely unprotected. Though I admit my standards are high - I think most European urbanity isn't at the stage where I'd like an 8 year old ride a bike to school.
        Tade0 4y ago
        I see. Why bike though? Plenty of places in Europe where children can walk to school.
        ryukafalz 4y ago
        Cycling increases your reasonable travel radius substantially. In a dense city with good transit this might be less of a big deal, but outside of cities in sprawling suburbs it’s more important. School isn’t the only place a kid might want to go; their friends might live further away, there might be a park that would take quite a while to walk to but is an easy bike ride, etc.
- ryan93 4y ago
  It seems like you just need a reason not to move. If Utrecht is too hot the rest of the world will be in hell.
  - CalRobert 4y ago
    I'm not sure if I need a reason not to move. My wife will be naturalized in ~6 months so we're figuring out what to do next.
- kaon123 4y ago
  Funny you say so Robert. Currently living in Zurich and definately planning to move to Utrecht. It certainly won't be too hot in 30 years. And sea level rise shouldn't be problematic yet this century.
- modo_mario 4y ago
  Honestly I've been considering moving to Ireland and one of the reasons is because Belgium might get too hot and i'm not a fan of winter depression. I worry the gulf stream might slow down tho but I assume that won't happen anytime soon.
  - CalRobert 4y ago
    Ireland is great for weather! There's a lot to love about this place. It's very car-dependent and sprawling by European standards, though.
maxbond 4y ago
> My attitude went from Denial to Activism to Acceptance. Just like to put out there that it it may be too late to stop climate change altogether, but things can get much worse and can get much better, and it is very much worth reducing emissions, preparing for a changing climate, and generally striving to survive.
- quantified 4y ago
  It is worth it, and therefore worth gentle evangelizing. A lot fof people are still thinking "screw it" because either they don't believe they can do anything or because they don't yet care.
CapitalistCartr 4y ago
My house is two blocks from the ocean, 2.6m (8.5') above mean sea level. I know at some point it can't last. I expect to move before then.
- workingon 4y ago
  I dont think that will be an issue in your lifetime, unless you are in an area prone to storm surge. In which case your elevation is ALREADY a problem.
  - hh3k0 4y ago
    > "Thwaites is really holding on today by its fingernails, and we should expect to see big changes over small timescales in the future -- even from one year to the next -- once the glacier retreats beyond a shallow ridge in its bed," Robert Larter, a marine geophysicist and one of the study's co-authors from the British Antarctic Survey, said in the release. https://edition.cnn.com/2022/09/05/world/thwaites-doomsday-glacier-sea-level-climate/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2022/09/05/world/thwaites-doomsday-g... Thwaites gone would constitute a sea level rise of 10 feet, iirc.
    - samatman 4y ago
      The actual number is 25 inches, and most consensus suggests collapse over centuries. There is some concern that a bracing portion of the glacier may collapse soon, which would take Thwaites from 4 to 6% of contribution to sea level rise.
coffeeblack 4y ago
Good. Because doubt is unscientific.
raydiatian 4y ago
Yep. I remember a few years ago I was all gung ho about us fixing the problem based on the napkin math alone. Came out to mankind having a budget of something like 10 quintillion man hours until climate was permanently fucked with sealed fates. Seems like more than enough to orchestrate a solution. Now I realize it just doesn’t matter to the people really behind the wheel. Eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we’ll die. Fuck it
- maxbond 4y ago
  I agree there has been a tremendous failure of leadership and that the people benefiting from the status quo are incapable of changing course, but let's get them away from that wheel.
  - raydiatian 4y ago
    Good luck with all that. Whether you vote Democrat or Republican it doesn’t really make a difference. The specter of corporate interest is eternally allowed to possess legislative avatars and parade about guaranteeing that status quo. If there is a physical signal strong enough to orient the capable majority of 8 billion people with a common vector field in regard to the climate situation, I haven’t seen it yet.
    - maxbond 4y ago
      Electoral politics is largely a failure. It's the last mile of any political movement, where activism has succeeded, the culture has changed, and the politicians are ready to sign off on it - nothing changes through electoral politics that hasn't a already changed from boots-on-the-ground activism. We are seeing people realize this and embrace other forms of political action. Think about the rise of "quiet quitting" - people are pushing back against this fatal culture of working endlessly to produce useless crap that's destroying our environment. We're on the cusp of something major. There's no guarantee it will get here in time to save us. But it's a real possibility.
      - 4y ago
jbu 4y ago
I've stopped at Activism. I accept that it's already happening, but how bad it gets is entirely up to us. I don't get the <throws hands in the air>It's just a done deal, back to netflix</> attitude, and prefer the 'Hey, our generation(s) have a task, let's get it done' one.
- UncleMeat 4y ago
  It is on purpose. The "we are fucked, nothing to be done" narrative is another weapon in the propaganda arsenal for fossil fuel producers. And it works on a lot of people. Climate change is continuous. 1.6 degrees is worse than 1.5. 2.2 degrees is worse than 2.1. Every ton of CO2 reduced improves the situation. This is true regardless of the harm already caused.
  - BLKNSLVR 4y ago
    With loose reference to your handle: "it can't happen here"
- bspammer 4y ago
  Short of running for office, I just don’t really feel that my actions can affect anything. I will choose green options when available, I pay for an energy supplier that claims to be 100% renewable powered, I don’t have a car, I haven’t flown in years, I eat mostly vegetarian, but at the end of the day all this really does is slightly assuage my guilty conscience. I’m not convinced activism is much more effective - everyone hates extinction rebellion every time they block a highway and politicians get points for saying they’ll stop it happening again. It really feels like the only real way a single person can make a difference is by running for office, and I would be a terrible politician.
  - maxbond 4y ago
    If you don't believe in protest, keep in mind that it isn't the only form of activism which is possible. You might look around your local community and ask, "if the worst comes to pass, what will we need to survive?" Can you help tend a community garden so that there's local food production if food becomes scarce? Can you learn about your local environment and ways you might find water if there are shortages? Can you learn to maintain the machinery necessary to sustain human life?
bambataa 4y ago
I have gone from activism to some kind of cynical acceptance. Fundamentally people don’t really care so you might as well go on that cruise or fly out to see the coral reefs before they die. Try to account for possible scenarios when deciding where to live. Not too far south, on high ground. I do find it hard to get used to the idea that everything will (probably) keep getting harder. More frequent pride spikes, weird weather, more instability. But even within that I think you can carry on happily if you only focus on what you can control. Possibly this attitude is what helped get us into this mess in the first place.
- maxbond 4y ago
  The problem isn't the people, it's that the power structures in our society are designed to concentrate power and to transmit themselves from one generation to the next, and they are not designed to make sound decisions. I think of it as a parasite that has latched onto our society. It feeds on our culture, our creativity and innovation. It seeks to conflate itself with our society and to tell us that, without it, there would be chaos and violence, that we need it to survive. But it's not true. I understand the despair. But it is not too late and the problem is not "human nature". The problem is a status quo that can be abolished.
- orwin 4y ago
  I'm still an activist. But I've decided that if the EU continue to move as slowly, if my country leaders keep their path and if my fellow citizens still vote for the same idiots (or change to fascists) next time, I'm out. All the money my local bank is putting in local project will go to Total and Exxon, i will stop my hiking vacations and choose all inclusive hostels on others continents, and visit cities or areas that will become unlivable in the future. Or maybe not. But i decided that this next five years will be the last years I'm really caring.
charles_kaw 4y ago
> Anybody else experiencing an attitude change? I had serious anxiety a few years ago about this, and ended up in Acceptance. I'm not happy ending up here, but I figure I got about 30 years left. That's pretty good, I'll take it.
spaceman_2020 4y ago
The thing that's been the most jarring to me about climate change has been just that - the change. Every year feels different. You might have intense rains one year, drought-like situation the next year. One summer might be brutal, another pleasant. I feel unmoored and untethered. The reasonable predictability of weather patterns is completely broken now.
- bluGill 4y ago
  Weather patterns have never been that predictable. Sure there are some patterns, and weather predictors know important things to watch (like El Nino/la nina), but those are not on a predictable cycle so much as they last long enough that you can put reasonable ranges on what can happen a few months in advance.
bowsamic 4y ago
Only in the last year? That's impressive. I had a colleague at work about 5 years ago have a total meltdown at her desk as she realised that we are very unlikely to find a solution to this before extreme, severe damage is done... I think doomerism is pretty common now, especially since groups like XR have started to become far more individualistic and neoliberal in their messaging, switching from more intense protests and occupations to more often just posting "please don't fly" things on Facebook. My theory is that so many people in Europe especially are so incredibly wedded to their western democratic liberal ideals that they, as Jameson and Zizek said: find it "easier to imagine an end to the world than an end to capitalism", where for "capitalism" if you don't agree with a totally Marxist analysis you can really substitute any structural issue that is causing us to not take anywhere near enough action on the climate. And it is, isn't it? It's far easier to imagine that we will keep accelerating towards climate catastrophe than to imagine that the structural changes that would need to occur for us to stop it will actually happen.
- lemmiwinks 4y ago
  So the only solution to climate change is anti-capitalism. Got it.
  - bowsamic 4y ago
    We aren't exactly overflowing with "solutions to climate change", and capitalism seems to be incentivising for further and further exploitation of the planet, rather than a reduction. Can capitalism support a degrowth economy? Also I literally said > where for "capitalism" if you don't agree with a totally Marxist analysis you can really substitute any structural issue that is causing us to not take anywhere near enough action on the climate. If you don't agree that it's capitalism, choose your own systematic issue...
    - Geee 4y ago
      Capitalism and market economy is all about degrowth. It's a system that tries to make same amount of stuff using less and less resources. Because of it, we get constantly more efficient, and can support a higher standard of living using less resources. It's a system where the most efficient survive. Resource over-use is caused by government intervention. It's the governments who try to pump up their GDPs with various policies, which causes ever-growing consumption and resource use. They literally control the interest rates to get everyone to consume as much as possible.
humanlion87 4y ago
I went from activism and being anxious all the time to acceptance. I feel like regulation is the only way we can improve the situation. But most of the people in power are owned by rich corporations/people. And their only goal is to make more money. I don't see much a common person can do to change or improve things. I live in a country where I still don't have the right to vote (maybe a decade from now). Instead of being anxious and getting stressed out everyday from thinking about the worsening climate, I feel it's better for my health to accept the fact and move on.
cameronh90 4y ago
I definitely know what you mean. I just assume climate change is a given, and when I bought a house (in the UK), I made sure to buy one at a higher elevation and checked out how it would be affected in climate and flooding models. The truth is richer European nations are unlikely to be the worst directly affected. No doubt there will be crop failures, disasters and deaths, but we will probably escape the worst of it. We have the resources to build effective infrastructure. The warmer climate could even make Europe more hospitable once we've adapted to it. However, we won't be able to escape the consequences of the enormous humanitarian disaster due to many in poorer countries becoming climate migrants. I expect populist right wing parties to take an even tougher line on migration as the crises deepen, and possibly society in general to become more authoritarian as a result. Significant wars too, possibly. Accepting it as inevitable means accepting hundreds of millions of people being displaced. If we want to deal with that gracefully, we need to start planning for how the rest of the world will absorb those individuals. Otherwise I fear we're going to be responsible for a lot of horrifying acts in the next century...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
lm28469 4y ago
> I my attitudes went from Denial to Activism to Acceptance. Interesting how the mind works. Anybody else experiencing an attitude change? The titanic is sinking, the best thing you can do for yourself is pop a bottle of champaign, find the most comfy chair and enjoy the spectacle. Everybody cares about climate change, nobody will ever give up technological "progress", we're doomed, but hey, at least you can get free same day delivery on toilet paper
Archelaos 4y ago
Acceptance is an understandable psychological reaction. There is just too much horror going on on this planet to let it affect our psyche too deeply. However, it is important to cultivate a rational ethical attitude that despises such things regardless of one's psychological state. Moral sentiments need not be accompanied by moral affections. The insight that something is fundamentally wrong can guide action out of duty, and does not require inclination.
leto_ii 4y ago
> I my attitudes went from Denial to Activism to Acceptance. I think the next step is adaptation. Try to build some sort of resilient life for yourself and your family, try to help out the local community as much as possible etc. Try to not be too terrible to the people who will really suffer the most (Africa, parts of Asia etc.). This is kind of where I am right now.

CalRobert 4y ago

My wife and I are very conflicted about moving to Utrecht because we very much want to live in a bike-friendly city where our kids can be independent (where we are now, Ireland, is horrible for this) but we also want somewhere that isn't too hot in 30 years. The Nordics might manage to have both?

LunaSea 4y ago
I would imagine that the rising ocean levels would be more concerning
Tade0 4y ago
> where our kids can be independent (where we are now, Ireland, is horrible for this) Could you elaborate?
- ryukafalz 4y ago
  Having not been to Ireland but relating to this a lot in the US, my guess is it’s about biking not generally being safe. Kids can’t drive, but in the US at least we’ve built a ton of places where you basically have to drive to get around, so parents end up shuttling their kids around to wherever they want to go.
  - Tade0 4y ago
    I've looked at a few random points in Irish cities and they don't seem to be any different than your typical European urban landscape. There are narrow streets, low-speed zones, even bike paths. Where's the horrible part?
    - ryukafalz 4y ago
      I’m looking around street view in Dublin and it looks similar to my own city (Philadelphia) in a lot of ways. Narrow side streets yes, but it seems where there are bike lanes they’re extremely unprotected/not even buffered, and there are plenty of wide streets without bike infrastructure of any sort. And ultimately you do usually need to be on a main road some of the time when going to many places. (In Dublin’s case I notice there’s a river running through town that only the larger streets seem to cross.) Compared to Utrecht (which was the initial point of comparison here), it looks awful for cycling.
    - CalRobert 4y ago
      The main thing is that Ireland has far more suburban sprawl and the bike infrastructure is almost entirely unprotected. Though I admit my standards are high - I think most European urbanity isn't at the stage where I'd like an 8 year old ride a bike to school.
      - Tade0 4y ago
        I see. Why bike though? Plenty of places in Europe where children can walk to school.
        ryukafalz 4y ago
        Cycling increases your reasonable travel radius substantially. In a dense city with good transit this might be less of a big deal, but outside of cities in sprawling suburbs it’s more important. School isn’t the only place a kid might want to go; their friends might live further away, there might be a park that would take quite a while to walk to but is an easy bike ride, etc.
ryan93 4y ago
It seems like you just need a reason not to move. If Utrecht is too hot the rest of the world will be in hell.
- CalRobert 4y ago
  I'm not sure if I need a reason not to move. My wife will be naturalized in ~6 months so we're figuring out what to do next.
kaon123 4y ago
Funny you say so Robert. Currently living in Zurich and definately planning to move to Utrecht. It certainly won't be too hot in 30 years. And sea level rise shouldn't be problematic yet this century.
modo_mario 4y ago
Honestly I've been considering moving to Ireland and one of the reasons is because Belgium might get too hot and i'm not a fan of winter depression. I worry the gulf stream might slow down tho but I assume that won't happen anytime soon.
- CalRobert 4y ago
  Ireland is great for weather! There's a lot to love about this place. It's very car-dependent and sprawling by European standards, though.

maxbond 4y ago

> My attitude went from Denial to Activism to Acceptance. Just like to put out there that it it may be too late to stop climate change altogether, but things can get much worse and can get much better, and it is very much worth reducing emissions, preparing for a changing climate, and generally striving to survive.

quantified 4y ago
It is worth it, and therefore worth gentle evangelizing. A lot fof people are still thinking "screw it" because either they don't believe they can do anything or because they don't yet care.

CapitalistCartr 4y ago

My house is two blocks from the ocean, 2.6m (8.5') above mean sea level. I know at some point it can't last. I expect to move before then.

workingon 4y ago
I dont think that will be an issue in your lifetime, unless you are in an area prone to storm surge. In which case your elevation is ALREADY a problem.
- hh3k0 4y ago
  > "Thwaites is really holding on today by its fingernails, and we should expect to see big changes over small timescales in the future -- even from one year to the next -- once the glacier retreats beyond a shallow ridge in its bed," Robert Larter, a marine geophysicist and one of the study's co-authors from the British Antarctic Survey, said in the release. https://edition.cnn.com/2022/09/05/world/thwaites-doomsday-glacier-sea-level-climate/index.html https://edition.cnn.com/2022/09/05/world/thwaites-doomsday-g... Thwaites gone would constitute a sea level rise of 10 feet, iirc.
  - samatman 4y ago
    The actual number is 25 inches, and most consensus suggests collapse over centuries. There is some concern that a bracing portion of the glacier may collapse soon, which would take Thwaites from 4 to 6% of contribution to sea level rise.

coffeeblack 4y ago

Good. Because doubt is unscientific.

raydiatian 4y ago

Yep. I remember a few years ago I was all gung ho about us fixing the problem based on the napkin math alone. Came out to mankind having a budget of something like 10 quintillion man hours until climate was permanently fucked with sealed fates. Seems like more than enough to orchestrate a solution. Now I realize it just doesn’t matter to the people really behind the wheel. Eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we’ll die. Fuck it

maxbond 4y ago
I agree there has been a tremendous failure of leadership and that the people benefiting from the status quo are incapable of changing course, but let's get them away from that wheel.
- raydiatian 4y ago
  Good luck with all that. Whether you vote Democrat or Republican it doesn’t really make a difference. The specter of corporate interest is eternally allowed to possess legislative avatars and parade about guaranteeing that status quo. If there is a physical signal strong enough to orient the capable majority of 8 billion people with a common vector field in regard to the climate situation, I haven’t seen it yet.
  - maxbond 4y ago
    Electoral politics is largely a failure. It's the last mile of any political movement, where activism has succeeded, the culture has changed, and the politicians are ready to sign off on it - nothing changes through electoral politics that hasn't a already changed from boots-on-the-ground activism. We are seeing people realize this and embrace other forms of political action. Think about the rise of "quiet quitting" - people are pushing back against this fatal culture of working endlessly to produce useless crap that's destroying our environment. We're on the cusp of something major. There's no guarantee it will get here in time to save us. But it's a real possibility.
    - 4y ago

jbu 4y ago

I've stopped at Activism. I accept that it's already happening, but how bad it gets is entirely up to us. I don't get the <throws hands in the air>It's just a done deal, back to netflix</> attitude, and prefer the 'Hey, our generation(s) have a task, let's get it done' one.

UncleMeat 4y ago
It is on purpose. The "we are fucked, nothing to be done" narrative is another weapon in the propaganda arsenal for fossil fuel producers. And it works on a lot of people. Climate change is continuous. 1.6 degrees is worse than 1.5. 2.2 degrees is worse than 2.1. Every ton of CO2 reduced improves the situation. This is true regardless of the harm already caused.
- BLKNSLVR 4y ago
  With loose reference to your handle: "it can't happen here"
bspammer 4y ago
Short of running for office, I just don’t really feel that my actions can affect anything. I will choose green options when available, I pay for an energy supplier that claims to be 100% renewable powered, I don’t have a car, I haven’t flown in years, I eat mostly vegetarian, but at the end of the day all this really does is slightly assuage my guilty conscience. I’m not convinced activism is much more effective - everyone hates extinction rebellion every time they block a highway and politicians get points for saying they’ll stop it happening again. It really feels like the only real way a single person can make a difference is by running for office, and I would be a terrible politician.
- maxbond 4y ago
  If you don't believe in protest, keep in mind that it isn't the only form of activism which is possible. You might look around your local community and ask, "if the worst comes to pass, what will we need to survive?" Can you help tend a community garden so that there's local food production if food becomes scarce? Can you learn about your local environment and ways you might find water if there are shortages? Can you learn to maintain the machinery necessary to sustain human life?

bambataa 4y ago

I have gone from activism to some kind of cynical acceptance. Fundamentally people don’t really care so you might as well go on that cruise or fly out to see the coral reefs before they die. Try to account for possible scenarios when deciding where to live. Not too far south, on high ground. I do find it hard to get used to the idea that everything will (probably) keep getting harder. More frequent pride spikes, weird weather, more instability. But even within that I think you can carry on happily if you only focus on what you can control. Possibly this attitude is what helped get us into this mess in the first place.

maxbond 4y ago
The problem isn't the people, it's that the power structures in our society are designed to concentrate power and to transmit themselves from one generation to the next, and they are not designed to make sound decisions. I think of it as a parasite that has latched onto our society. It feeds on our culture, our creativity and innovation. It seeks to conflate itself with our society and to tell us that, without it, there would be chaos and violence, that we need it to survive. But it's not true. I understand the despair. But it is not too late and the problem is not "human nature". The problem is a status quo that can be abolished.
orwin 4y ago
I'm still an activist. But I've decided that if the EU continue to move as slowly, if my country leaders keep their path and if my fellow citizens still vote for the same idiots (or change to fascists) next time, I'm out. All the money my local bank is putting in local project will go to Total and Exxon, i will stop my hiking vacations and choose all inclusive hostels on others continents, and visit cities or areas that will become unlivable in the future. Or maybe not. But i decided that this next five years will be the last years I'm really caring.

charles_kaw 4y ago

> Anybody else experiencing an attitude change? I had serious anxiety a few years ago about this, and ended up in Acceptance. I'm not happy ending up here, but I figure I got about 30 years left. That's pretty good, I'll take it.

spaceman_2020 4y ago

The thing that's been the most jarring to me about climate change has been just that - the change. Every year feels different. You might have intense rains one year, drought-like situation the next year. One summer might be brutal, another pleasant. I feel unmoored and untethered. The reasonable predictability of weather patterns is completely broken now.

bluGill 4y ago
Weather patterns have never been that predictable. Sure there are some patterns, and weather predictors know important things to watch (like El Nino/la nina), but those are not on a predictable cycle so much as they last long enough that you can put reasonable ranges on what can happen a few months in advance.

bowsamic 4y ago

Only in the last year? That's impressive. I had a colleague at work about 5 years ago have a total meltdown at her desk as she realised that we are very unlikely to find a solution to this before extreme, severe damage is done... I think doomerism is pretty common now, especially since groups like XR have started to become far more individualistic and neoliberal in their messaging, switching from more intense protests and occupations to more often just posting "please don't fly" things on Facebook. My theory is that so many people in Europe especially are so incredibly wedded to their western democratic liberal ideals that they, as Jameson and Zizek said: find it "easier to imagine an end to the world than an end to capitalism", where for "capitalism" if you don't agree with a totally Marxist analysis you can really substitute any structural issue that is causing us to not take anywhere near enough action on the climate. And it is, isn't it? It's far easier to imagine that we will keep accelerating towards climate catastrophe than to imagine that the structural changes that would need to occur for us to stop it will actually happen.

lemmiwinks 4y ago
So the only solution to climate change is anti-capitalism. Got it.
- bowsamic 4y ago
  We aren't exactly overflowing with "solutions to climate change", and capitalism seems to be incentivising for further and further exploitation of the planet, rather than a reduction. Can capitalism support a degrowth economy? Also I literally said > where for "capitalism" if you don't agree with a totally Marxist analysis you can really substitute any structural issue that is causing us to not take anywhere near enough action on the climate. If you don't agree that it's capitalism, choose your own systematic issue...
  - Geee 4y ago
    Capitalism and market economy is all about degrowth. It's a system that tries to make same amount of stuff using less and less resources. Because of it, we get constantly more efficient, and can support a higher standard of living using less resources. It's a system where the most efficient survive. Resource over-use is caused by government intervention. It's the governments who try to pump up their GDPs with various policies, which causes ever-growing consumption and resource use. They literally control the interest rates to get everyone to consume as much as possible.

humanlion87 4y ago

I went from activism and being anxious all the time to acceptance. I feel like regulation is the only way we can improve the situation. But most of the people in power are owned by rich corporations/people. And their only goal is to make more money. I don't see much a common person can do to change or improve things. I live in a country where I still don't have the right to vote (maybe a decade from now). Instead of being anxious and getting stressed out everyday from thinking about the worsening climate, I feel it's better for my health to accept the fact and move on.

cameronh90 4y ago

I definitely know what you mean. I just assume climate change is a given, and when I bought a house (in the UK), I made sure to buy one at a higher elevation and checked out how it would be affected in climate and flooding models. The truth is richer European nations are unlikely to be the worst directly affected. No doubt there will be crop failures, disasters and deaths, but we will probably escape the worst of it. We have the resources to build effective infrastructure. The warmer climate could even make Europe more hospitable once we've adapted to it. However, we won't be able to escape the consequences of the enormous humanitarian disaster due to many in poorer countries becoming climate migrants. I expect populist right wing parties to take an even tougher line on migration as the crises deepen, and possibly society in general to become more authoritarian as a result. Significant wars too, possibly. Accepting it as inevitable means accepting hundreds of millions of people being displaced. If we want to deal with that gracefully, we need to start planning for how the rest of the world will absorb those individuals. Otherwise I fear we're going to be responsible for a lot of horrifying acts in the next century...

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

lm28469 4y ago

> I my attitudes went from Denial to Activism to Acceptance. Interesting how the mind works. Anybody else experiencing an attitude change? The titanic is sinking, the best thing you can do for yourself is pop a bottle of champaign, find the most comfy chair and enjoy the spectacle. Everybody cares about climate change, nobody will ever give up technological "progress", we're doomed, but hey, at least you can get free same day delivery on toilet paper

Archelaos 4y ago

Acceptance is an understandable psychological reaction. There is just too much horror going on on this planet to let it affect our psyche too deeply. However, it is important to cultivate a rational ethical attitude that despises such things regardless of one's psychological state. Moral sentiments need not be accompanied by moral affections. The insight that something is fundamentally wrong can guide action out of duty, and does not require inclination.

leto_ii 4y ago

> I my attitudes went from Denial to Activism to Acceptance. I think the next step is adaptation. Try to build some sort of resilient life for yourself and your family, try to help out the local community as much as possible etc. Try to not be too terrible to the people who will really suffer the most (Africa, parts of Asia etc.). This is kind of where I am right now.