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Oberlin drove the bakery out of business while knowing full well that the bakery did nothing wrong. The kid that got caught shoplifting plead guilty and he als
by jononomo 4y ago
Oberlin drove the bakery out of business while knowing full well that the bakery did nothing wrong. The kid that got caught shoplifting plead guilty and he also outright stated that racism was not involved.
- jjeaff 4y agoThis doesn't necessarily go against your point, but I have seen far too many innocent people coerced into pleading guilty to actually believe someone is guilty based on a guilty plea.
- crackercrews 4y agoSure, that happens. But it's most likely when the accused has too few resources to win at trial. Here the college was clearly in their corner. Why would they plead guilty and say racism was no part of it? Their statements seems very credible under the circumstances.
- alsaaro 4y agoThe kids accused of shoplifting were charged with felonies and eventually plead down to misdemeanors. Race is always a factor in America, especially its criminal justice system, are the students confessions genuine contrition or motivated by fear of disproportionate punishment? A question impossible to answer.
- kthejoker2 4y agoTheir guilt was definitely not in question. They were arrested by the cops in the middle of the act of assaulting the employee (kicking him while he was on the ground) and with the shoplifted property on their possession. A conviction was already assured, the guilty plea was an extremely rational move, whether out of contrition or fear.
- CrazyStat 4y agoThe shoplifter is also a Phillips Andover grad--yes, that Phillips Andover, the one that's often ranked #1 prep school in the nation and costs $50k/year in tuition.
- dehrmann 4y agoTrue, but if you're a large institution making a public statement (this could be interpreted broadly) against a small business, you better be sure it's true. It's especially not worth it when the shoplifter was trying to use a fake ID.
- nradov 4y agoThis was a civil trial, not criminal. The college never plead guilty. They were found liable. The college had competent legal representation and there was no coercion.
- joshuamorton 4y agoGp wasn't talking about the college but the shoplifter, who was a criminal defendant and whose legal representation we have no knowledge of.
- tptacek 4y agoThat's an uncharitable summary. This is an unusually huge defamation award, and I support it: Oberlin richly deserved the outcome they had in court. But the story you're telling is not accurate. School administrators at Oberlin pretty clearly believed that Gibson's racially profiled students and victimized lower-income non-white students. And, here's the important thing about that: to some extent, Oberlin is entitled to believe that and say so, regardless of what the "facts" are. That's because, to an extent, those are subjective statements, and defamation consists of false statements of fact. Where Oberlin screwed up royally was in recklessly presenting facts that supported their preconceived (and constitutionally protected) notions about Gibson's moral failings. But it's easy to see how someone could do that: you see it in HN arguments every day, if not every hour. People believe things that confirm the rest of their beliefs. It turns out, if you casually do that while running a university, you can end up costing your university tens of millions of dollars. And rightly so. But the story you want to tell, about Oberlin's administrators simply manufacturing a story about Gibson's for the hell of it --- no, that's almost certainly not what happened.
- jononomo 4y agoFirst, this guy was not a lower-income student -- he had attended a $50k/year private high school. Second, Oberlin did not believe that Gibson's racially profiled students. Third, the kids not only shoplifted, they then kicked and beat the fellow who tried to chase them and stop them from shoplifting.