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So you want to be a writer?
- ggm 4y agoI've read a more terse version of this: If you want to be a writer write. If you aren't writing irrespective of any external concern, you aren't a writer
- michaelwww 4y agoI want to be a writer that the lover I never met wants to read
- version_five 4y agoThis is directly relevant to post that's on the front page right now about getting into ycombinator. You could equally change the poem to be "so you want to be a founder" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32771235 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32771235 don't be like so many writers, don't be like so many thousands of people who call themselves writers, don't be dull and boring and pretentious, don't be consumed with self- love. the libraries of the world have yawned themselves to sleep over your kind. don't add to that. don't do it.
- moistly 4y agoWoke up this morning, and it seemed to me That every night turns out to be A little bit more like Bukowski And yeah, I know he's a pretty good read But God, who'd wanna be God, who'd wanna be such an asshole God, who'd wanna be God, who'd wanna be such an asshole - Modest Mouse
- fydkwheduxb 4y agoIn literature classes I find Bukowski to be an interesting way to gauge your peers. Not as course material mind you, but you can guess a lot about a classmate's attitudes from how they feel (if familiar) about Charles Bukowski and Haruki Murakami. Sort of like how you can tell a lot about certain kinds of tech workers by their taste in books really (granted the yardsticks are different and they have to actually be readers).
- bottlepalm 4y agoWould love to replace writer with programmer and get back to that point in my life.
- biohax2015 4y agoThey are uhh pretty different. Code is not bursting out of me like a ray of sunshine or whatever, but it pays the bills and that is fulfilling enough.
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- bottlepalm 4y agoFor some people it can be, just list writing, that is the point Bukowski is trying to make.
- vidarh 4y agoI do both, and what drives me to do them is the same. But programming is far easier to make a living with, so that's my day job.
- self_awareness 4y agoI physically feel bad when I'm not programming for a few days, and I've actually identified my situation with Bukowski's view, just had to switch "writer" to "programmer".
- bazoom42 4y agoI dont want to maintain the code of someone who programs like that.
- smilespray 4y agoOr work with them.
- acdw 4y agohonestly this is such a bad take and it really annoys me. it's okay if it doesn't come easily! some of the best works of art took ages to conceptualize and realize, and the fact bukowski thinks that's antithesis to art shows in his sloppy and unconsidered writing.
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- coldtea 4y ago>the fact bukowski thinks that's antithesis to art shows in his sloppy and unconsidered writing. Sloppy and unconsidered is the whole point. The same way a punk song (1977-era not Green Day era) is not meant to sound like a classical concerto.
- j0hnyl 4y agoFunny, I don't find his writing sloppy and unconsidered at all. His sense of style is so clearly defined, that I think I can come across a poem or story of his that I hadn't read before and recognize it as his work.
- acdw 4y agoMaybe I should read more Bukowski. Have you any recommendations?
- j0hnyl 4y agoI think a good introduction to his prose is Post Office, it's an easy read. If you like that, then you can move on to his other novels like Ham On Rye, which feels more real and dark, especially when he talks about his childhood. My favorite poetry collection is "Burning in water, drowning in flame", but most of the poems are thematically and stylistically aligned. He also wrote a ton of short stories, mostly dark and crass. They are all quite short, so literally take your pick with those. I like the novels above the other stuff personally.
- strken 4y agoI haven't read anything by Bukowski, out of fear that his outlook might be infectious.
- block_dagger 4y agoTry Ham on Rye, it’s great!
- tengbretson 4y agoCharles Bukowski is shit. There, I wrote it.
- bazoom42 4y agoSo brave! Seriously, that is basically the brand he built his career on. If you really wanted to be mean, you would say “Bukowski is really a very nice guy, nothing at all like the low-life he writes about”.
- JackFr 4y agoIt’s not about being mean. It’s the poems. They’re not good poems.
- karmakurtisaani 4y agoWell, thank you for your input I guess.
- bazoom42 4y agoThank you for your insight. Definitely made me reevaluate my opinions.
- JackFr 4y ago> the brand he built his career Doesn’t speak well for the work frankly. Why can’t his poetry speak for itself? Why is it only good when we know the backstory? The emperor has no clothes. His work is simplistic and the gravitas is fake. Glad for you if you like his work - there is no accounting for taste. I know I’m in the minority, and learned scholars disagree. I’m not trying to convince anyone, just offering a differing viewpoint.
- tengbretson 4y agoIf he's going to romanticize hedonic scumbaggery, the least he could do is look like he's having a good time.
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- goto11 4y agoApparently Douglas Adams found it very difficult to write. According to the biography by Neil Gaiman it was almost painful for him, every book or manuscript a chore. I'm happy he didn't follow the advice from Bukowski to just give up! Bukowskis poem seem to represent the romantic idea that art is divinely inspired and the artist is just a vessel. Maybe it really felt like that for Bokowski, while for others writing is just hard work. It is funny that Adams who have such a playful style of prose found writing torture, while the much more self-important and edgy Bukowski find it easy. (Assuming the poem represent his own experience.)
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- smilespray 4y agoHang on. This sounds like something I'd like to read. Is this a Douglas Adams bio or a Neil Gaiman one?
- MrVandemar 4y agoBoth! It's a biography of Douglas Adams written by Neil Gaiman (pretty early on in Neils career). It's called "Don't Panic".
- omwow 4y agoHow did I not know about this?! Fantastic!
- coldtea 4y agoWell, Adams books appear that way too. The writing is very contrived and stiff (even as comedic writing) - so it's all about the jokes. They're still great jokes and funny characters, but what's left as the strongest impression is them, not the writing flow, turn of phrase, or even plot. I mean that in the same sense a movie like Airplane! is just about stringing jokes together, and has no deeper plot or "cinematic" qualities (compared to a comedy like Shaun of the Dead or Young Frankenstein).
- photochemsyn 4y agoBukoski goes well with Philip K Dick. The portrait they paint of 1950s and 1960s America (even if accidentally) is truly dystopian, a world of wild-eyed amphetamine addicts and self-destructive alcoholics wrapped up in the social norms of their day. It's really some of the most depressing literature out there, and almost none of the characters in their works are even vaguely likable or admirable. It's probably 'good writing' in the sense of being an honest appraisal, but yikes, I wouldn't want to live in their worlds.
- wiz21c 4y agoI like Bukowski a lot because under what you describe, I feel an immense sense of humanity. Without that sub-level, it'd be indeed gross and depressing...
- Balgair 4y agoSeasons in Hell by Mike Shopshire paints a similar picture of early 70's middle America. Looking back, I get a sense of how depression era people felt about the 20's. Pages of complaints about constant hangovers gets really childish really fast, especially for middle aged men.
- jobs_throwaway 4y agoI dunno, I've found plenty of likable characters in the PKD I've read. Bob Arctor in a Scanner Darkly, Barney Mayerson in the Three Stigmata, Joe Chip in Ubik. The list could go on.
- ai_ia 4y agoBukowski was an eccentric guy and often he used to contradict himself. This poem seems to encompass his life philosophy and which also happens to be written on his tombstone in just two words: "Don't try" However, in his another poem, Roll the Dice, he presents something entirely different outlook on the subject of trying. And this is a poem I really admire. ROLL THE DICE ------------- If you’re going to try, go all the way. Otherwise, don’t even start. If you’re going to try, go all the way. This could mean losing girlfriends, wives, relatives, jobs and maybe even your mind. It could mean not eating for three or four days. It could mean freezing on a park bench. It could mean jail. It could mean derision, mockery, isolation. Isolation is the gift. All the others are a test of your endurance, of how much you really want to do it. And, you’ll do it, despite rejection and the worst odds. And it will be better than anything else you can imagine. If you’re going to try, go all the way. There is no other feeling like that. You will be alone with the gods, and the nights will flame with fire. DO IT. DO IT. DO IT. All the way You will ride life straight to perfect laughter. It’s the only good fight there is.
- Silverback_VII 4y agoI like the nietzschean spirit in the poem you posted. I found the following after searching for "don't try" which is also quite nice: "Somebody asked me: "What do you do? How do you write, create?" You don't, I told them. You don't try. That's very important: not to try, either for Cadillacs, creation or immortality. You wait, and if nothing happens, you wait some more. It's like a bug high on the wall. You wait for it to come to you. When it gets close enough you reach out, slap out and kill it. Or if you like its looks, you make a pet out of it." - Charles Bukowski
- agumonkey 4y agoIt reminds me of the antique view of genius. Which was something that happened to and through you rather that you.
- agumonkey 4y agoThere's often a leap of faith in important matters. I believe both his views don't try or all the way are trying to convey that. Basically don't waste time going mild. But truth is, he's not telling the whole story. First full throttle may make you blind. Second there are times you can't go all in on one shot (lack of resources, risk of death, or simply not knowing which path). You have to chunk your progress. Still doing these chunks with high intensity, care and reminiscence.
- 6stringmerc 4y agoFor a more mainstream yet unapologetically artistic intro to Bukowski, check out “Factotum” starring Matt Dillon. It’s not perfect and still rather polished, but the tone and darkness and context of his life and writings basically both being the dregs of humanity, well, that’s art being able to share it like he did. Definitely not my taste - give me surrealist James Tate any day… Also, handy tip for those who want to write: get a 3x5” or smaller spiral notebook and a pen with a clip that can fit in the spiral. Put it in your pocket and take it everywhere. See something funny or unique standing in line? Scribble it down. Eventually you’ll get better and better at picking your words on the spot, of translating from your head to the page and then to a reader. It’s harmless practice and sometimes you can surprise yourself. Writers write. Then people accuse us of being lazy because when we’re working the hardest the most anybody sees is somebody glaring at a screen or piece of paper in a typewriter.
- chclau 4y agoDon't take advice from anyone. Including me.
- isaacfrond 4y agoFun fact. Did you know that his posthumous work has been seriously altered by his editior? https://mjpbooks.com/blog/the-senseless-tragic-rape-of-charles-bukowskis-ghost-by-john-martins-black-sparrow-press/ https://mjpbooks.com/blog/the-senseless-tragic-rape-of-charl... from the article: In the posthumous collections, Black Sparrow publisher John Martin has made changes to the majority of Bukowski’s poems. Damaging changes that run counter to just about everything Bukowski represented. Wholesale removal of references to drinking, drugs, sex and madness. Changes that completely alter the meaning of the manuscripts. Changes that don’t even begin to make sense. It feels like nothing short of gleeful, unrepentant vandalism and destruction.
- fedeb95 4y agoSadly I know, I've read Alex De Britto talk about it and his editions should be more faithful to the original. Anyway there are manuscripts at https://bukowski.net/ https://bukowski.net/
- antirez 4y agoI don't know about poetry, but prose? After the first draft, where there is some of this romantic instinct of writing by inspiration, the rest is hard work for months or years, more similar to finding bugs in a program than a divine muse driving you to write a masterpiece. Related in my blog: http://antirez.com/news/136 http://antirez.com/news/136
- simonebrunozzi 4y ago> if you have to sit for hours > staring at your computer screen > or hunched over your > typewriter > searching for words, > don't do it. I don't claim to BE a writer, but I think I had moments of good writing in my life, and I like writing a lot (I wrote two - largely unsuccessful, of course - novels, two technical books, and tons of other stuff), and I completely disagree with this. And for most of the rest of the poem.
- dpcan 4y agoI feel the same way about programmers.
- Tieje 4y agoThis poem romanticizes work, but I believe this notion is false from this video on turning pro. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lTcgSzf0AQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lTcgSzf0AQ The poem is the first thing referenced in the video.
- jkingsbery 4y ago> if you have to sit there and > rewrite it again and again > don't do it. I've heard of many writers - fiction, non-fiction, poets, all types - who do rewrite things again and again. I don't see why that wouldn't make them a writer. If anything, it seems the desire to improve a piece is a desirable trait.
- imchillyb 4y ago> if you have to sit there and rewrite it again and again, don't do it. I /strongly/ disagree with this. If you cannot revise, and have no stomach for it, then don't do it. First drafts are garbage; always.