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I gotta admit that it is a bit weird to see british royalty being so heavily privileged that they even get special moderation treatment here on HN to protect th

I gotta admit that it is a bit weird to see british royalty being so heavily privileged that they even get special moderation treatment here on HN to protect them (?) from any negativity, or rather stop negativity about them. I'm not keen on the idea of using this submission to flame the Queen, I obviously agree with the general rule of avoiding flamebait, what I mean is that other HN submissions on the deaths of people certainly didn't get this special treatment. It is also not at all enforced in both directions when looking at the obviously and comically over the top positive comments of low quality which contain no real substance. Edit: I used the wording "stop negativity" which might be misleading, since (as far as I am aware) no comments are being deleted. What I'm talking about is moderation giving out a lot of warnings and keeping a closer watch on "flamebait" violations than I've ever seen before on any submission.

mlindner 4y ago
As a general rule, you don't criticize people who've just died. That's just common courtesy.
- 2pEXgD0fZ5cF 4y ago
  It seems like you misunderstood or are misrepresenting what I wrote. While we have these kinds of submissions pretty regularly on HN, this is the first time in multiple years I've seen a reminder about this under almost every single negative comment and every comment containing critique. The reminder about the rule was even expanded to the whole concept of royalty. My point is not that speaking ill of the dead should be encouraged, my point is the selective enforcement of that sentiment with only a special, priviliged group benefitting from it. Edit after consideration: Whether criticizing the dead or not criticizing the dead should follow a general rule, I can't and won't comment on.
  - tempalotesc 4y ago
    I agree with you. I just think there is too much hype in the whole Royal Family than what it’s worth for. (Sorry if this offends some Brits but being from one of the colonized countries I strongly feel this is not worth it)
    - connordoner 4y ago
      As a Brit, I agree wholeheartedly.
    - jonwinstanley 4y ago
      Hype is maybe the wrong word? There is genuinely a lot for love for the Royals from a lot of people in the UK so there is a ton of media coverage of them, especially in some of the low end newspapers such as the Daily Express. Further afield, the Royal family is aggressively marketed by those who stand to benefit from increased tourism.
- immigrantheart 4y ago
  Including Hitler? Mao? Genghis Khan? War criminals?
  - drexlspivey 4y ago
    Yep. The “Genghis Khan has died” post was a total shitshow.
- renewiltord 4y ago
  It's not particularly well-observed. For instance: - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20661919 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20661919 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2504770 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2504770 But it is to be expected. There are the good guys in the Western sphere of influence and the bad guys. And this is a Western site. It cannot be expected to do much but reflect what is this site's audience. The Elephant and The Rider, after all. Besides, she's just a figurehead, and makes no real decisions. So it's a bit strange to lay the blame at her feet for the Mao-style starving of her subjects (as they would have been considered by her at the time) or the many wars.
  - krapp 4y ago
    > So it's a bit strange to lay the blame at her feet for the Mao-style starving of her subjects (as they would have been considered by her at the time) or the many wars. Not really. She's been the living figurehead and embodiment of "Britain" for nearly a century, and for colonized peoples that by definition includes the generational trauma and suffering from the British empire. You don't get to be Queen and wear a crown with the Kohinoor on it and just separate yourself from that history.
- pdc56 4y ago
  Well put. And as a 'general rule', of course there are exceptions. polishing by bells for the Putin death announcement celebration
Grismar 4y ago
You say "special moderation treatment", as if it is something sinister. Have you considered that it may just be the fact that she was so broadly loved, that this happens naturally?
- 2pEXgD0fZ5cF 4y ago
  Last time I checked, the comments aren't getting removed, are they? So I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say, could you elaborate? It is pretty obvious that she is regarded positively by the majority here. Are you under the impression that I think otherwise?
- arinlen 4y ago
  > Have you considered that it may just be the fact that she was so broadly loved, that this happens naturally? It's quite possible to respect the person who happens to be a monarch and being against the institution of monarchy. If you're not suppse to question monarchy when a ruling monarch dies, then when is it appropriate?
93po 4y ago
I love hating on moderation and I'm always ready to be critical of it, and of dang, if it's warranted. But I will say "monarchy is bad" comments are boring and don't lead to interesting discussion. There's a million other places to express that if you want.
- encryptluks2 4y ago
  But hundreds of comments repeating the most boring things like "she will be missed" aren't better left for the I Love Being Ruled Over Facebook Group?
  - dang 4y ago
    (That's pretty funny.) This is the point I was trying to make at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769925 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769925 by quoting pg's 15-year-old bit about how empty positive comments aren't so bad (https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html). It's true that they don't contain any more information than empty negative comments, but they don't degrade the threads the way empty negative comments do. Unfortunately people took that as some sort of pro-monarchist stance!
    - teddyh 4y ago
      All advocates of temperance and moderation are preservers of the status quo. Therefore advocates of change naturally fall afoul of the moderators.
      - tptacek 4y ago
        They certainly do when their advocacy takes the form of sneering.
        teddyh 4y ago
        Tone policing is a form of moderation.
dang 4y ago
It wasn't really special moderation treatment, though I understand why it looks like that way now. It was because, when the thread was getting going, it flooded with crap comments (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769222 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769222, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769043 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769043). I decided to come down hard on those to try to ward off a shitshow. It would have been the same in any thread that was filling up that way, but which we weren't going to downweight off the front page. And we weren't going to do that because (a) the story was on-topic, and (b) it's such a big story that we couldn't get rid of it if we wanted to—people would just repost it until one got past us. I posted https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769925 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769925 at the top of the thread as a bulwark against the crap comments. That's also standard moderation. At some point, though, the thread started to fill with plenty of more substantive comments and then it looked to people like I was taking a side on the royalist question. Nothing was further from my mind. It took me a long time to figure this out, probably because after 4 hours of doing nothing but refreshing this page and posting moderation scoldings, my brain was fried. Eventually I got it and the fix was simply to unpin https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769925 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769925 from the top and demote it as offtopic. That seems to have calmed things down (except maybe for https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=theirishrover https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=theirishrover).
- 2pEXgD0fZ5cF 4y ago
  Thanks for replying, this certainly lends me some context I was missing before.
  - dang 4y ago
    I didn't help things by getting defensive earlier! The eternal lesson.
  - soneil 4y ago
    It's worth noting that the delivery often causes more problems than the content. Counter-opinions appear to last a lot longer if they frame it in a civilised discussion.
creativenolo 4y ago
For us who don't feel for the monarchy or think it has minimal impact or significance on our lives, the next couple of weeks (or months) is going to be grueling as we have to stay quiet, bite our tongues and bare the over-the-top ness of this situation to not offend others. I was disappointed in this moderation warning. The ex-prime minister of the UK who led us through a pandemic where hundreds of thousands died has just said it's the UK darkest day. And, I have received an email to say my kids nursery will be closed due to the situation, and they will be talking about bereavement for the kids. He is 2.
- baq 4y ago
  I don't live in the UK, but it looks like it's a proper big deal for a large part of your society... I guess that's what society is about. Sometimes you have to give way.
  - encryptluks2 4y ago
    > I guess that's what society is about. Sometimes you have to give way. Would you be saying the same thing if we were talking about racist, or homophobic individuals? Let's not pretend that the monarchy doesn't have victims.
    - baq 4y ago
      Neither does democracy. Life is mostly gray. Also I don't feel like explaining all the possible meanings of 'sometimes'.
      - encryptluks2 4y ago
        Geez, suggesting democracy has victims sounds an awful like suggesting we might as well return to slavery because free people harm other free people.
- Veen 4y ago
  I would suggest that many more people are saddened by the Queen’s death than consider it a meaningless inconvenience, as you appear to. Perhaps you could be sensitive to the feelings of your fellow citizens, even if they do disrupt your day somewhat.

mlindner 4y ago

As a general rule, you don't criticize people who've just died. That's just common courtesy.

2pEXgD0fZ5cF 4y ago
It seems like you misunderstood or are misrepresenting what I wrote. While we have these kinds of submissions pretty regularly on HN, this is the first time in multiple years I've seen a reminder about this under almost every single negative comment and every comment containing critique. The reminder about the rule was even expanded to the whole concept of royalty. My point is not that speaking ill of the dead should be encouraged, my point is the selective enforcement of that sentiment with only a special, priviliged group benefitting from it. Edit after consideration: Whether criticizing the dead or not criticizing the dead should follow a general rule, I can't and won't comment on.
- tempalotesc 4y ago
  I agree with you. I just think there is too much hype in the whole Royal Family than what it’s worth for. (Sorry if this offends some Brits but being from one of the colonized countries I strongly feel this is not worth it)
  - connordoner 4y ago
    As a Brit, I agree wholeheartedly.
  - jonwinstanley 4y ago
    Hype is maybe the wrong word? There is genuinely a lot for love for the Royals from a lot of people in the UK so there is a ton of media coverage of them, especially in some of the low end newspapers such as the Daily Express. Further afield, the Royal family is aggressively marketed by those who stand to benefit from increased tourism.
immigrantheart 4y ago
Including Hitler? Mao? Genghis Khan? War criminals?
- drexlspivey 4y ago
  Yep. The “Genghis Khan has died” post was a total shitshow.
renewiltord 4y ago
It's not particularly well-observed. For instance: - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20661919 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20661919 - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2504770 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2504770 But it is to be expected. There are the good guys in the Western sphere of influence and the bad guys. And this is a Western site. It cannot be expected to do much but reflect what is this site's audience. The Elephant and The Rider, after all. Besides, she's just a figurehead, and makes no real decisions. So it's a bit strange to lay the blame at her feet for the Mao-style starving of her subjects (as they would have been considered by her at the time) or the many wars.
- krapp 4y ago
  > So it's a bit strange to lay the blame at her feet for the Mao-style starving of her subjects (as they would have been considered by her at the time) or the many wars. Not really. She's been the living figurehead and embodiment of "Britain" for nearly a century, and for colonized peoples that by definition includes the generational trauma and suffering from the British empire. You don't get to be Queen and wear a crown with the Kohinoor on it and just separate yourself from that history.
pdc56 4y ago
Well put. And as a 'general rule', of course there are exceptions. polishing by bells for the Putin death announcement celebration

Grismar 4y ago

You say "special moderation treatment", as if it is something sinister. Have you considered that it may just be the fact that she was so broadly loved, that this happens naturally?

2pEXgD0fZ5cF 4y ago
Last time I checked, the comments aren't getting removed, are they? So I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say, could you elaborate? It is pretty obvious that she is regarded positively by the majority here. Are you under the impression that I think otherwise?
arinlen 4y ago
> Have you considered that it may just be the fact that she was so broadly loved, that this happens naturally? It's quite possible to respect the person who happens to be a monarch and being against the institution of monarchy. If you're not suppse to question monarchy when a ruling monarch dies, then when is it appropriate?

93po 4y ago

I love hating on moderation and I'm always ready to be critical of it, and of dang, if it's warranted. But I will say "monarchy is bad" comments are boring and don't lead to interesting discussion. There's a million other places to express that if you want.

encryptluks2 4y ago
But hundreds of comments repeating the most boring things like "she will be missed" aren't better left for the I Love Being Ruled Over Facebook Group?
- dang 4y ago
  (That's pretty funny.) This is the point I was trying to make at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769925 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769925 by quoting pg's 15-year-old bit about how empty positive comments aren't so bad (https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html). It's true that they don't contain any more information than empty negative comments, but they don't degrade the threads the way empty negative comments do. Unfortunately people took that as some sort of pro-monarchist stance!
  - teddyh 4y ago
    All advocates of temperance and moderation are preservers of the status quo. Therefore advocates of change naturally fall afoul of the moderators.
    - tptacek 4y ago
      They certainly do when their advocacy takes the form of sneering.
      - teddyh 4y ago
        Tone policing is a form of moderation.

dang 4y ago

It wasn't really special moderation treatment, though I understand why it looks like that way now. It was because, when the thread was getting going, it flooded with crap comments (e.g. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769222 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769222, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769043 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769043). I decided to come down hard on those to try to ward off a shitshow. It would have been the same in any thread that was filling up that way, but which we weren't going to downweight off the front page. And we weren't going to do that because (a) the story was on-topic, and (b) it's such a big story that we couldn't get rid of it if we wanted to—people would just repost it until one got past us. I posted https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769925 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769925 at the top of the thread as a bulwark against the crap comments. That's also standard moderation. At some point, though, the thread started to fill with plenty of more substantive comments and then it looked to people like I was taking a side on the royalist question. Nothing was further from my mind. It took me a long time to figure this out, probably because after 4 hours of doing nothing but refreshing this page and posting moderation scoldings, my brain was fried. Eventually I got it and the fix was simply to unpin https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769925 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32769925 from the top and demote it as offtopic. That seems to have calmed things down (except maybe for https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=theirishrover https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=theirishrover).

2pEXgD0fZ5cF 4y ago
Thanks for replying, this certainly lends me some context I was missing before.
- dang 4y ago
  I didn't help things by getting defensive earlier! The eternal lesson.
- soneil 4y ago
  It's worth noting that the delivery often causes more problems than the content. Counter-opinions appear to last a lot longer if they frame it in a civilised discussion.

creativenolo 4y ago

For us who don't feel for the monarchy or think it has minimal impact or significance on our lives, the next couple of weeks (or months) is going to be grueling as we have to stay quiet, bite our tongues and bare the over-the-top ness of this situation to not offend others. I was disappointed in this moderation warning. The ex-prime minister of the UK who led us through a pandemic where hundreds of thousands died has just said it's the UK darkest day. And, I have received an email to say my kids nursery will be closed due to the situation, and they will be talking about bereavement for the kids. He is 2.

baq 4y ago
I don't live in the UK, but it looks like it's a proper big deal for a large part of your society... I guess that's what society is about. Sometimes you have to give way.
- encryptluks2 4y ago
  > I guess that's what society is about. Sometimes you have to give way. Would you be saying the same thing if we were talking about racist, or homophobic individuals? Let's not pretend that the monarchy doesn't have victims.
  - baq 4y ago
    Neither does democracy. Life is mostly gray. Also I don't feel like explaining all the possible meanings of 'sometimes'.
    - encryptluks2 4y ago
      Geez, suggesting democracy has victims sounds an awful like suggesting we might as well return to slavery because free people harm other free people.
Veen 4y ago
I would suggest that many more people are saddened by the Queen’s death than consider it a meaningless inconvenience, as you appear to. Perhaps you could be sensitive to the feelings of your fellow citizens, even if they do disrupt your day somewhat.