6 ms·

The wholesale price of LSD is currently under $2/hit.

pessimizer 4y ago
That was retail in the 90s, but considering inflation that sounds like we're finally getting back to Pickard pricing. My local sources run an order of magnitude higher. edit, for anyone curious about 90s wholesale: "Government informant Skinner testified that Petaluma Al and the largest wholesale customers of Pickard paid 29 cents per 100 µg dose, which would put the cost at around $2.97 million for a kilogram of LSD." edit: I'm annoyed by the math used in this quote. They couldn't say $2.9 million or "around" $3 million?
- chasd00 4y ago
  A kg of pure lsd would be a site to behold. I don’t know how you could even handle it in any semi-safe way.
  - djhn 4y ago
    Chemistry and LSD newbie question: what would make it unsafe?
    - xvedejas 4y ago
      LSD is extremely potent at small quantities (dozens of micrograms); exposure to even a small fraction of this (a few grams, say) could be enough to put someone into a non-responsive state for a few days. I don't think it'd cause permanent damage, but still not something to underestimate.
      - kirsebaer 4y ago
        There are reports in medical journals of people accidentally taking hundreds of doses of LSD, and they all were sober within 24 hours.
        BTCOG 4y ago
        Nobody in this world, is taking "hundreds of doses" of LSD and sober within 24 hours.
        BTCOG 4y ago
        That case report notes a 10x dose, a 5x dose (these are pretty standard), and a very loose description of snorting 55mg of powdered LSD, which I don't buy. I've seen enough folks eat a sheet or down a 10k mic vial and trip for a week+ to know better. Possibly the dose report was well off, or snorting it and fortunately they didn't get much of it or it wasn't pure LSD-25.
        pessimizer 4y ago
        I also have a lot of doubt about the last one. The first two are light users having strong emotional reactions to amounts that would be an un-notable recreational amount for others. 55mg is nuts. Five hits won't really even make you hallucinate. As old hippies used to tell me in the 90s, pot is 100x stronger than it was in the 60s, and LSD is 100x weaker.
        BTCOG 4y ago
        The linked reported "massive overdose from the 70's case" is also fairly bogus, in my opinion. Look deeper in the report and see the serum levels quoted and one of the highest of one of 7 patients recorded was 26ng/ml? That's effectively like taking 6-7 hits of LSD at approximate dosage of 200 microgram per dose. So what's "massive," and what does that mean then, if that person was comatose off only 6 medium sized doses of LSD, right? That is not anywhere near hundreds of doses.
        radicaldreamer 4y ago
        Three case reports for LSD overdoses: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339234169_LSD_Overdoses_Three_Case_Reports https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339234169_LSD_Overd...
        4y ago
    - loves_mangoes 4y ago
      A kilogram is a lot, considering LSD is active at microgram doses, although in practice there are labs producing and handling kilograms of it. LSD in powder form is readily available on the black market. Expensive (because you don't just go and ask to buy only 1mg of LSD powder), but not exceptionally unsafe or rare. Now the people who handle Fentanyl and Fentanyl analogues, those probably want to triple check their gloves and mask before putting them on.
      - elevaet 4y ago
        > in practice there are labs producing and handling kilograms of it. Really? I doubt it. 1kg is about 10 million doses (@100ug each). I don't think there are enough people gobbling acid for there to be labs producing on that scale per batch. The cost of making a mistake with a batch that big would be quite high.
        herbst 4y ago
        You would be surprised but there are reputable online shops who offer exactly that.
        elevaet 4y ago
        Do you think they actually have that in stock, and if they've ever fulfilled a 1kg order? I don't mean that facetiously, but I am skeptical that it's just a marketing stunt!
        herbst 4y ago
        I am not gonna name drop anyone, but there is one reputable seller that is online for 10+ years and is resold in all colours on all popular platforms. If they announce that bulk stock is available and shortly after the announcement it's sold out. It's either really smart marketing or just the reality of how big the market actually is :) However 1g Gramm is available too, maybe it's more like 1000 people buying 1g? Edit:// having more acid than you could ever need is somewhat a novelty in this scene
    - paulmd 4y ago
      it'll go through skin, and if you spilled a bunch on an ungloved hand you're going to be going for a ride, which is of course the origin of the 'bicycle day' itself and the discovery of LSD. of course, many things are not safe on the skin and that's not uniquely dangerous, really
  - boltzmann-brain 4y ago
    somehow I can't reply to djhn's comment, but what makes large amounts of LSD unsafe is how readily it gets absorbed into the blood stream through the skin in amounts that are metabolically massive. Look up "thumbprinting"
    - loves_mangoes 4y ago
      That's mostly a myth, it's not very well absorbed through the skin at all. For a thumbprint, you still put your thumb on your tongue and lick it. But it's important to keep in mind that only very rarely have people actually done thumbprints. Those are mostly stories, legends, and artistic works of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take them as fact.
      - effingwewt 4y ago
        Oh it's very well absorbed through the skin, and not a myth at all, and can be easily searched many places online. We would routinely put this to the test. Not only is it absorbed through the skin, but it takes longer to start and end the trip. We would do it on purpose for a longer/more intense trip if we were say camping for the weekend.
        goatsi 4y ago
        You would solely take LSD by putting it on unbroken skin? Multiple LSD chemists have confirmed this is a myth. An esteemed underground LSD chemist arrested in '05, Donnie Shackelford, is quoted in an unfinished book on black market LSD production by Tim Scully. Here's an excerpt from the interview. >Tim Scully said, "Did you ever get dosed through your skin in the lab". Donnie Shackelford replied, "No, I have accidentally dosed myself while laying sheets, I either touched my eye, or mouth. But the answer to your question is no, you cannot be dosed through the skin. I never wore gloves in any procedure unless lye is used and it isn’t in this procedure. I learned the hard way dropping a flask with 20g of LSD in it. I was extremely upset. I’ve had it all over my hands many, many times. I was there when Dr. Nichols basically called bullshit on the good doctor at Mindstates 60th anniversary". This is the Mindstates talk by David Nichols https://erowid.org/general/conferences/conference_mindstates4_nichols.shtml https://erowid.org/general/conferences/conference_mindstates... >"Another fact: I've made LSD in my lab on many occasions for research purposes, possibly in not so meticulous a manner as Albert Hofmann. Nothing ever happened. I had several graduate students who made LSD as an intermediate for projects. No accidental ingestion of LSD ever occurred. A technician in my lab makes it routinely because we use it as a drug to train our rats. He's learned by experience that he never gets high, nothing ever happens. And yesterday I was talking to Nick Sand, and Nick said, "I made a solution of LSD in DMSO…" -- DMSO (dimethyl sulfoxide) is a chemical that greatly enhances absorption of other chemicals through the skin -- he says, "…I painted it on my skin. Nothing happened." A concentrated solution and nothing happened!"

That was retail in the 90s, but considering inflation that sounds like we're finally getting back to Pickard pricing. My local sources run an order of magnitude higher. edit, for anyone curious about 90s wholesale: "Government informant Skinner testified that Petaluma Al and the largest wholesale customers of Pickard paid 29 cents per 100 µg dose, which would put the cost at around $2.97 million for a kilogram of LSD." edit: I'm annoyed by the math used in this quote. They couldn't say $2.9 million or "around" $3 million?

chasd00 4y ago
A kg of pure lsd would be a site to behold. I don’t know how you could even handle it in any semi-safe way.
- djhn 4y ago
  Chemistry and LSD newbie question: what would make it unsafe?
  - xvedejas 4y ago
    LSD is extremely potent at small quantities (dozens of micrograms); exposure to even a small fraction of this (a few grams, say) could be enough to put someone into a non-responsive state for a few days. I don't think it'd cause permanent damage, but still not something to underestimate.
    - kirsebaer 4y ago
      There are reports in medical journals of people accidentally taking hundreds of doses of LSD, and they all were sober within 24 hours.
      - BTCOG 4y ago
        Nobody in this world, is taking "hundreds of doses" of LSD and sober within 24 hours.
        BTCOG 4y ago
        That case report notes a 10x dose, a 5x dose (these are pretty standard), and a very loose description of snorting 55mg of powdered LSD, which I don't buy. I've seen enough folks eat a sheet or down a 10k mic vial and trip for a week+ to know better. Possibly the dose report was well off, or snorting it and fortunately they didn't get much of it or it wasn't pure LSD-25.
        pessimizer 4y ago
        I also have a lot of doubt about the last one. The first two are light users having strong emotional reactions to amounts that would be an un-notable recreational amount for others. 55mg is nuts. Five hits won't really even make you hallucinate. As old hippies used to tell me in the 90s, pot is 100x stronger than it was in the 60s, and LSD is 100x weaker.
        BTCOG 4y ago
        The linked reported "massive overdose from the 70's case" is also fairly bogus, in my opinion. Look deeper in the report and see the serum levels quoted and one of the highest of one of 7 patients recorded was 26ng/ml? That's effectively like taking 6-7 hits of LSD at approximate dosage of 200 microgram per dose. So what's "massive," and what does that mean then, if that person was comatose off only 6 medium sized doses of LSD, right? That is not anywhere near hundreds of doses.
      - radicaldreamer 4y ago
        Three case reports for LSD overdoses: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339234169_LSD_Overdoses_Three_Case_Reports https://www.researchgate.net/publication/339234169_LSD_Overd...
        4y ago
  - loves_mangoes 4y ago
    A kilogram is a lot, considering LSD is active at microgram doses, although in practice there are labs producing and handling kilograms of it. LSD in powder form is readily available on the black market. Expensive (because you don't just go and ask to buy only 1mg of LSD powder), but not exceptionally unsafe or rare. Now the people who handle Fentanyl and Fentanyl analogues, those probably want to triple check their gloves and mask before putting them on.
    - elevaet 4y ago
      > in practice there are labs producing and handling kilograms of it. Really? I doubt it. 1kg is about 10 million doses (@100ug each). I don't think there are enough people gobbling acid for there to be labs producing on that scale per batch. The cost of making a mistake with a batch that big would be quite high.
      - herbst 4y ago
        You would be surprised but there are reputable online shops who offer exactly that.
        elevaet 4y ago
        Do you think they actually have that in stock, and if they've ever fulfilled a 1kg order? I don't mean that facetiously, but I am skeptical that it's just a marketing stunt!
        herbst 4y ago
        I am not gonna name drop anyone, but there is one reputable seller that is online for 10+ years and is resold in all colours on all popular platforms. If they announce that bulk stock is available and shortly after the announcement it's sold out. It's either really smart marketing or just the reality of how big the market actually is :) However 1g Gramm is available too, maybe it's more like 1000 people buying 1g? Edit:// having more acid than you could ever need is somewhat a novelty in this scene
  - paulmd 4y ago
    it'll go through skin, and if you spilled a bunch on an ungloved hand you're going to be going for a ride, which is of course the origin of the 'bicycle day' itself and the discovery of LSD. of course, many things are not safe on the skin and that's not uniquely dangerous, really
- boltzmann-brain 4y ago
  somehow I can't reply to djhn's comment, but what makes large amounts of LSD unsafe is how readily it gets absorbed into the blood stream through the skin in amounts that are metabolically massive. Look up "thumbprinting"
  - loves_mangoes 4y ago
    That's mostly a myth, it's not very well absorbed through the skin at all. For a thumbprint, you still put your thumb on your tongue and lick it. But it's important to keep in mind that only very rarely have people actually done thumbprints. Those are mostly stories, legends, and artistic works of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take them as fact.
    - effingwewt 4y ago
      Oh it's very well absorbed through the skin, and not a myth at all, and can be easily searched many places online. We would routinely put this to the test. Not only is it absorbed through the skin, but it takes longer to start and end the trip. We would do it on purpose for a longer/more intense trip if we were say camping for the weekend.
      - goatsi 4y ago
        You would solely take LSD by putting it on unbroken skin? Multiple LSD chemists have confirmed this is a myth. An esteemed underground LSD chemist arrested in '05, Donnie Shackelford, is quoted in an unfinished book on black market LSD production by Tim Scully. Here's an excerpt from the interview. >Tim Scully said, "Did you ever get dosed through your skin in the lab". Donnie Shackelford replied, "No, I have accidentally dosed myself while laying sheets, I either touched my eye, or mouth. But the answer to your question is no, you cannot be dosed through the skin. I never wore gloves in any procedure unless lye is used and it isn’t in this procedure. I learned the hard way dropping a flask with 20g of LSD in it. I was extremely upset. I’ve had it all over my hands many, many times. I was there when Dr. Nichols basically called bullshit on the good doctor at Mindstates 60th anniversary". This is the Mindstates talk by David Nichols https://erowid.org/general/conferences/conference_mindstates4_nichols.shtml https://erowid.org/general/conferences/conference_mindstates... >"Another fact: I've made LSD in my lab on many occasions for research purposes, possibly in not so meticulous a manner as Albert Hofmann. Nothing ever happened. I had several graduate students who made LSD as an intermediate for projects. No accidental ingestion of LSD ever occurred. A technician in my lab makes it routinely because we use it as a drug to train our rats. He's learned by experience that he never gets high, nothing ever happens. And yesterday I was talking to Nick Sand, and Nick said, "I made a solution of LSD in DMSO…" -- DMSO (dimethyl sulfoxide) is a chemical that greatly enhances absorption of other chemicals through the skin -- he says, "…I painted it on my skin. Nothing happened." A concentrated solution and nothing happened!"