5 ms·

> socially harmless. Nobody gets addicted to them, there are no known negative health effects. Not true. My friend woke up handcuffed to a hospital bed after

> socially harmless. Nobody gets addicted to them, there are no known negative health effects. Not true. My friend woke up handcuffed to a hospital bed after a bad trip on mushrooms. He saw his dead body in the street and was convinced he was dead and a ghost. He then went running around Manhattan traffic jumping on cars. An English teacher in high school witnessed her friend jump to her death from a balcony after taking LSD. The woman said she felt light as a bird, took off running, hopped up a chair and dove over the railing to the pavement 20 feet below. She broke her neck. I am not saying psychedelics should remain banned. But to casually call them harmless is incredibly irresponsible. They need to be taken under supervision by people with experience. This is called trip sitting. Not all trips are good as emotions and state of mind can effect the outcome. Things can go wrong fast. Be safe.

dekhn 4y ago
From my read of the scientific literature, most situations like the ones you describe are at least partially caused by underlying disorders that pre-existed (and manifested). And the second one you describe is a pretty common story to be told (same rumor at my college).
- MisterTea 4y ago
  > From my read of the scientific literature, most situations like the ones you describe are at least partially caused by underlying disorders that pre-existed (and manifested). Do you have a qualifying medical certificate and professionally diagnosed my friend? The answer is no. So don't try to down play a serious incident you have ZERO knowledge of. > And the second one you describe is a pretty common story to be told (same rumor at my college). When my teacher told us the story she was quite emotional and serious. It could be a well intentioned lie to discourage "drug use" but again, you have no way of knowing the truth so knock it off.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    > Do you have a qualifying medical certificate and professionally diagnosed my friend? It's weird that you yourself don't require these kinds of qualifications to participate in this discussion. I guess you don't need them in order to disqualify people from disagreeing with you.
  - dekhn 4y ago
    Note that my text was written to not specifically say that you lied, or misinterpreted the situation. my point was "the average observation is not entirely consistent with your anecdote", and "if a person does a crazy thing on drugs, it may not have been the drugs that made them crazy" (as for credentials- no, no actual medical credentials, but I do have a phd in biophysics [emphasis on drug discovery], and have worked in the field of medical biology for decades). More importantly, my goal is here to avoid the "reefer madness" effect by countering establishment propaganda and college rumors with my read of the scientific literature, and also to raise awareness that mental illness is common and that psychedelic drugs can be a precipitating condition that turns a maintained disease into an emergency. Trip responsibly,
- _vdpp 4y ago
  Is that any less reason to think this isn’t a good idea? How many latent, otherwise-benign disorders might become manifest if people experiment with these drugs?
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    Or with alcohol, or with religion, or with watching movies about time travel.
    - _vdpp 4y ago
      Is there a Biff Tannen copycat crime spree I wasn’t aware of?
      - pessimizer 4y ago
        China has been concerned that time-travel movies cause people to lose their grip on reality.
- josephcsible 4y ago
  How are these two scenarios different in practice? 1. Someone has had a latent mental disorder since birth, which then manifested itself permanently upon taking psychedelics, and would have never manifested itself without them 2. Someone who originally had no mental disorders developed a permanent one from taking psychedelics
  - dekhn 4y ago
    Just replace "psychedelics" with "*" because the general question is interesting, not psychedelics. People have just sort of gone along with the idea that psychedelics precipitate mental illness more than other drugs, or other life activities. There isn't really strong data for that with LSD.
ruined 4y ago
if you are worried about the harmful behavioral effects of psychedelics, consider that a significant fraction of all violent crimes involve alcohol: * 15% of robberies * 37% of sexual assaults * 27% of aggravated assaults * 60% of domestic violence (victim reported) * 40% of child abusers (self reported) * 40% of convicted murderers (self reported) * 30% of traffic violence fatalities https://www.alcoholrehabguide.org/alcohol/crimes/ https://www.alcoholrehabguide.org/alcohol/crimes/ psychedelics are essentially insignificant and are almost never involved in violence.
- dsl 4y ago
  Sounds like both should be illegal then?
  - akomtu 4y ago
    No, it means both should be legal and the behavior is what should be prosecuted, not the substance taken.
    - astrange 4y ago
      > An English teacher in high school witnessed her friend jump to her death from a balcony after taking LSD. The woman said she felt light as a bird, took off running, hopped up a chair and dove over the railing to the pavement 20 feet below. She broke her neck. What behavior could be prosecuted here except for giving someone LSD without supervision?
      - akomtu 4y ago
        Who do we prosecute when a motorcyclist crashes into a tree at 120 mph?
        astrange 4y ago
        We should prosecute the US institute of traffic engineers since it’s literally in their model policy that streets must be designed so you can go fast enough to kill yourself, and the correct number of pedestrian deaths before considering any mitigations is significantly more than none.
altruios 4y ago
An English teacher you say... you have a reference for that - or is that just an iteration/mutation of the original story? (Frank Olson) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Olson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Olson Basically a chemist gets secretly drugged with a massive dose of LSD, then nine whole days later allegedly jumps out the window of a hotel... this was after he was declared a possible security risk... So more than likely he was helped out that window. If not that - it was probably the guilt: for being a part of MKUltra and the clandestine drugging of American citizens - he had a moral crisis, that much is certain. I'm not saying your story isn't true... but I've been on the internet long enough to see how stories morph over time.

dekhn 4y ago

From my read of the scientific literature, most situations like the ones you describe are at least partially caused by underlying disorders that pre-existed (and manifested). And the second one you describe is a pretty common story to be told (same rumor at my college).

MisterTea 4y ago
> From my read of the scientific literature, most situations like the ones you describe are at least partially caused by underlying disorders that pre-existed (and manifested). Do you have a qualifying medical certificate and professionally diagnosed my friend? The answer is no. So don't try to down play a serious incident you have ZERO knowledge of. > And the second one you describe is a pretty common story to be told (same rumor at my college). When my teacher told us the story she was quite emotional and serious. It could be a well intentioned lie to discourage "drug use" but again, you have no way of knowing the truth so knock it off.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  > Do you have a qualifying medical certificate and professionally diagnosed my friend? It's weird that you yourself don't require these kinds of qualifications to participate in this discussion. I guess you don't need them in order to disqualify people from disagreeing with you.
- dekhn 4y ago
  Note that my text was written to not specifically say that you lied, or misinterpreted the situation. my point was "the average observation is not entirely consistent with your anecdote", and "if a person does a crazy thing on drugs, it may not have been the drugs that made them crazy" (as for credentials- no, no actual medical credentials, but I do have a phd in biophysics [emphasis on drug discovery], and have worked in the field of medical biology for decades). More importantly, my goal is here to avoid the "reefer madness" effect by countering establishment propaganda and college rumors with my read of the scientific literature, and also to raise awareness that mental illness is common and that psychedelic drugs can be a precipitating condition that turns a maintained disease into an emergency. Trip responsibly,
_vdpp 4y ago
Is that any less reason to think this isn’t a good idea? How many latent, otherwise-benign disorders might become manifest if people experiment with these drugs?
- pessimizer 4y ago
  Or with alcohol, or with religion, or with watching movies about time travel.
  - _vdpp 4y ago
    Is there a Biff Tannen copycat crime spree I wasn’t aware of?
    - pessimizer 4y ago
      China has been concerned that time-travel movies cause people to lose their grip on reality.
josephcsible 4y ago
How are these two scenarios different in practice? 1. Someone has had a latent mental disorder since birth, which then manifested itself permanently upon taking psychedelics, and would have never manifested itself without them 2. Someone who originally had no mental disorders developed a permanent one from taking psychedelics
- dekhn 4y ago
  Just replace "psychedelics" with "*" because the general question is interesting, not psychedelics. People have just sort of gone along with the idea that psychedelics precipitate mental illness more than other drugs, or other life activities. There isn't really strong data for that with LSD.

ruined 4y ago

if you are worried about the harmful behavioral effects of psychedelics, consider that a significant fraction of all violent crimes involve alcohol: * 15% of robberies * 37% of sexual assaults * 27% of aggravated assaults * 60% of domestic violence (victim reported) * 40% of child abusers (self reported) * 40% of convicted murderers (self reported) * 30% of traffic violence fatalities https://www.alcoholrehabguide.org/alcohol/crimes/ https://www.alcoholrehabguide.org/alcohol/crimes/ psychedelics are essentially insignificant and are almost never involved in violence.

dsl 4y ago
Sounds like both should be illegal then?
- akomtu 4y ago
  No, it means both should be legal and the behavior is what should be prosecuted, not the substance taken.
  - astrange 4y ago
    > An English teacher in high school witnessed her friend jump to her death from a balcony after taking LSD. The woman said she felt light as a bird, took off running, hopped up a chair and dove over the railing to the pavement 20 feet below. She broke her neck. What behavior could be prosecuted here except for giving someone LSD without supervision?
    - akomtu 4y ago
      Who do we prosecute when a motorcyclist crashes into a tree at 120 mph?
      - astrange 4y ago
        We should prosecute the US institute of traffic engineers since it’s literally in their model policy that streets must be designed so you can go fast enough to kill yourself, and the correct number of pedestrian deaths before considering any mitigations is significantly more than none.

altruios 4y ago

An English teacher you say... you have a reference for that - or is that just an iteration/mutation of the original story? (Frank Olson) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Olson https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Olson Basically a chemist gets secretly drugged with a massive dose of LSD, then nine whole days later allegedly jumps out the window of a hotel... this was after he was declared a possible security risk... So more than likely he was helped out that window. If not that - it was probably the guilt: for being a part of MKUltra and the clandestine drugging of American citizens - he had a moral crisis, that much is certain. I'm not saying your story isn't true... but I've been on the internet long enough to see how stories morph over time.