4 ms·

The way forward isn’t monitors and tvs at all, but 4k ultra short throw laser projectors like Samsung Premiere and Optoma P2. They’re like something out of Star

by rcarr 4y ago

The way forward isn’t monitors and tvs at all, but 4k ultra short throw laser projectors like Samsung Premiere and Optoma P2. They’re like something out of Star Wars, don’t even need the curtains closed to use them. They’re starting to come down in price as well to around the £1500-£2000 mark, won’t be long before they break the £1000 mark. Can’t wait to get one of these for my home office in a few months.

egypturnash 4y ago
Have you seen these in action? I am skeptical of all "don't need curtains" claims for projectors unless they are based on actual experience, every shitty $100 pocket projector says you "don't need curtains" which is barely even technically true in most cases.
- rcarr 4y ago
  I was sceptical at first but then I saw some photos and YouTube videos of people using them. Have a look at this, it’s not an ultra short throw one but it is a 4k laser one. The guy is using it outside in broad daylight to watch Netflix: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nebula-Polaris-Pro-Projector-Black-Gray/dp/B09BJM4BZQ/ref=mp_s_a_1_2_sspa?crid=TYBWXFHJ44XY&keywords=anker+nebula+4k&qid=1662652990&sprefix=anker+nebula+4k%2Caps%2C135&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1#review-media-gallery_1662653027545 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nebula-Polaris-Pro-Projector-Black-...
  - mburee 4y ago
    It claims 2400 lumens - I have a couple of flashlights in excess of 6000 and yeah, the light beam is visible in daylight but I can't see any way you'd project something with decent contrast even with that.
  - marcosdumay 4y ago
    You mean the promotional videos? You don't get to make black over a white surface in daylight.
    - rcarr 4y ago
      No I mean the user posted video and photo reviews on Amazon and also the odd YouTuber. And yes, it is not going to be as good as a TV outside in broad daylight. But they are almost definitely good enough to use inside with the curtains open. And if the light isn’t directly in your eyes like a monitor, do you even have to code in dark mode anymore?
  - tolmasky 4y ago
    That says it has a brightness of 2400 ISO Lumens, which roughly translates to about 600 nits according to this site[1], (although my back of the napkin math of 3.426 nits to lumens would give a worse 408 nit rating, but I think this page probably did a better job, so we'll go with that). This seems pretty low compared to even OLED TVs, which are of course worse than LCD TVs. I may be comparing peak brightness to average brightness though, hard to get a clear idea here. But, if my understanding is correct, with a project you'll also miss out on true blacks, right? 1. https://cybershack.com.au/cybershack/nebula-cosmos-laser-4k-finally-a-mini-projector-that-sees-the-light-review https://cybershack.com.au/cybershack/nebula-cosmos-laser-4k-...
Auracle 4y ago
I’ve had projectors ever since I was 14 years old but there’s no getting around the fact that the darkest their black level can get is however dark the screen is. Dark screens help but until we can project on something that’s essentially black they won’t be great for daytime viewing.
- jaywalk 4y ago
  Looking at the marketing pages for the two projectors mentioned is hilarious. They show images projected onto brightly-lit white walls with areas that are significantly darker than the wall, which is of course impossible. Unless/until some material comes along that is tuned somehow to only reflect light that comes from the projector, they'll have to remain limited to dark rooms.
  - rcarr 4y ago
    Have a look at this, looks pretty visible to me: https://youtu.be/nu2OZq8A-AI https://youtu.be/nu2OZq8A-AI
    - jaywalk 4y ago
      I wasn't talking about visibility. I was referring to the marketing pictures showing the projectors essentially "projecting darkness" which is impossible. No part of a projected image can possibly be darker than the surface it's being projected onto.
    - pwinnski 4y ago
      That video demonstrates the problem exactly. The "before" shot shows a clip from Lightyear which takes place in the black of space, and the screen is filled with high-contrast bright colors on a completely-black background. The "after" shot is of a bright sunny day where a car (low contrast despite the bright red color, to my eyes) drives through a desert. You could hardly ask for more directly opposite videos. For a real comparison, I'd have liked to see the same Lightyear clip on both setups.
  - unstatusthequo 4y ago
xxs 4y ago
You will have to paint your walls in (vanta) black.
- detritus 4y ago
  I know you're joking, but that would just result in a pretty-much black screen, no matter how much white was thrown at it :)
  - madetoshareqs 4y ago
    On the other hand, the contrast ratio would be really good. :)
    - jstanley 4y ago
      How would it?
      - hnuser123456 4y ago
        One photon in bright areas is infinite contrast ratio to zero photons in black areas
NonNefarious 4y ago
My "TV" is a projector, but I don't consider it practical for computer work. When 100" micro-LED panels come out, the projector is going away for good.
- smileysteve 4y ago
  Or the opposite, when glasses can have built in 1440p "augmented reality" oleds, each viewer can have as big of a display, with black pixels, as they want.
  - mrguyorama 4y ago
    My VR headset is 1400p per eye and GARBAGE for looking at text on a virtual screen. Any display tech that expects you to focus at a virtual plane for long periods of time will really hurt your eyes, and be basically unusable for many people. If you struggle in nice 3D movies to feel like your eyes are comfortable, you will have that same feeling in a VR or AR glasses situation. Basically, any system that requires your eyes to focus on a physical screen that isn't the same distance as virtual objects will piss off your brain, because it knows something is going on, and hates being tricked without consent. Some people I think can ignore this effect to some extent, others cannot. It also strains your eyes more than focusing on an actual 2D screen so increases eye fatigue compared.
  - NonNefarious 4y ago
    If that's your idea of a fun viewing party, go for it. I'll stick with the big-screen experience.
jnsie 4y ago
How long before we can replace monitors with virtual monitors via AR? I feel like we take for granted that we have TVs taking up huge chunks of our living rooms and monitors of our offices. Obviously resolution is a (huge) issue. Another, for TV at least, is the communal aspect (synchronized virtual TVs, anyone?) but it seems like the future is on without physical monitors/TVs. I wonder how distant a future that is...
- rcarr 4y ago
  There’s the nreal air glasses that you can buy today for £400 and some Lenovo glasses that were posted on hn recently that are coming next year. The future is already here: https://youtu.be/bj8hMtWeTUg https://youtu.be/bj8hMtWeTUg
- autoexec 4y ago
  > How long before we can replace monitors with virtual monitors via AR? Hopefully never. People who don't wear glasses don't need something on their face to watch TV, people who do need glasses don't need to worry about AR googles meaning they have to choose between seeing a screen clearly or everything else and nobody has to worry about the AR goggle company watching and logging everything you see and plastering everything in your line of sight with ads. I don't think physical screens are going anywhere anytime soon. I wouldn't mind having every wall in my home capable of being a screen though. Screen-as-wallpaper would be very nice since you could create smaller virtual screens on any wall wherever you needed one and it would mean you could change your wallpaper/color on a whim.
unstatusthequo 4y ago
Yes these are great. I have one from VAVA, and got a special screen to display it on that also helps prevent other light from affecting the lasers from the UST lens. It’s great for TV. Sure, black levels aren’t perfect, but I’ll give that up for a 10 foot screen. Not sure I’d use it for my office. I feel like an array of monitors or a really nice 8k would be better.

by rcarr 4y ago

egypturnash 4y ago

Have you seen these in action? I am skeptical of all "don't need curtains" claims for projectors unless they are based on actual experience, every shitty $100 pocket projector says you "don't need curtains" which is barely even technically true in most cases.

rcarr 4y ago
I was sceptical at first but then I saw some photos and YouTube videos of people using them. Have a look at this, it’s not an ultra short throw one but it is a 4k laser one. The guy is using it outside in broad daylight to watch Netflix: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nebula-Polaris-Pro-Projector-Black-Gray/dp/B09BJM4BZQ/ref=mp_s_a_1_2_sspa?crid=TYBWXFHJ44XY&keywords=anker+nebula+4k&qid=1662652990&sprefix=anker+nebula+4k%2Caps%2C135&sr=8-2-spons&psc=1#review-media-gallery_1662653027545 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Nebula-Polaris-Pro-Projector-Black-...
- mburee 4y ago
  It claims 2400 lumens - I have a couple of flashlights in excess of 6000 and yeah, the light beam is visible in daylight but I can't see any way you'd project something with decent contrast even with that.
- marcosdumay 4y ago
  You mean the promotional videos? You don't get to make black over a white surface in daylight.
  - rcarr 4y ago
    No I mean the user posted video and photo reviews on Amazon and also the odd YouTuber. And yes, it is not going to be as good as a TV outside in broad daylight. But they are almost definitely good enough to use inside with the curtains open. And if the light isn’t directly in your eyes like a monitor, do you even have to code in dark mode anymore?
- tolmasky 4y ago
  That says it has a brightness of 2400 ISO Lumens, which roughly translates to about 600 nits according to this site[1], (although my back of the napkin math of 3.426 nits to lumens would give a worse 408 nit rating, but I think this page probably did a better job, so we'll go with that). This seems pretty low compared to even OLED TVs, which are of course worse than LCD TVs. I may be comparing peak brightness to average brightness though, hard to get a clear idea here. But, if my understanding is correct, with a project you'll also miss out on true blacks, right? 1. https://cybershack.com.au/cybershack/nebula-cosmos-laser-4k-finally-a-mini-projector-that-sees-the-light-review https://cybershack.com.au/cybershack/nebula-cosmos-laser-4k-...

Auracle 4y ago

I’ve had projectors ever since I was 14 years old but there’s no getting around the fact that the darkest their black level can get is however dark the screen is. Dark screens help but until we can project on something that’s essentially black they won’t be great for daytime viewing.

jaywalk 4y ago
Looking at the marketing pages for the two projectors mentioned is hilarious. They show images projected onto brightly-lit white walls with areas that are significantly darker than the wall, which is of course impossible. Unless/until some material comes along that is tuned somehow to only reflect light that comes from the projector, they'll have to remain limited to dark rooms.
- rcarr 4y ago
  Have a look at this, looks pretty visible to me: https://youtu.be/nu2OZq8A-AI https://youtu.be/nu2OZq8A-AI
  - jaywalk 4y ago
    I wasn't talking about visibility. I was referring to the marketing pictures showing the projectors essentially "projecting darkness" which is impossible. No part of a projected image can possibly be darker than the surface it's being projected onto.
  - pwinnski 4y ago
    That video demonstrates the problem exactly. The "before" shot shows a clip from Lightyear which takes place in the black of space, and the screen is filled with high-contrast bright colors on a completely-black background. The "after" shot is of a bright sunny day where a car (low contrast despite the bright red color, to my eyes) drives through a desert. You could hardly ask for more directly opposite videos. For a real comparison, I'd have liked to see the same Lightyear clip on both setups.
- unstatusthequo 4y ago

xxs 4y ago

You will have to paint your walls in (vanta) black.

detritus 4y ago
I know you're joking, but that would just result in a pretty-much black screen, no matter how much white was thrown at it :)
- madetoshareqs 4y ago
  On the other hand, the contrast ratio would be really good. :)
  - jstanley 4y ago
    How would it?
    - hnuser123456 4y ago
      One photon in bright areas is infinite contrast ratio to zero photons in black areas

NonNefarious 4y ago

My "TV" is a projector, but I don't consider it practical for computer work. When 100" micro-LED panels come out, the projector is going away for good.

smileysteve 4y ago
Or the opposite, when glasses can have built in 1440p "augmented reality" oleds, each viewer can have as big of a display, with black pixels, as they want.
- mrguyorama 4y ago
  My VR headset is 1400p per eye and GARBAGE for looking at text on a virtual screen. Any display tech that expects you to focus at a virtual plane for long periods of time will really hurt your eyes, and be basically unusable for many people. If you struggle in nice 3D movies to feel like your eyes are comfortable, you will have that same feeling in a VR or AR glasses situation. Basically, any system that requires your eyes to focus on a physical screen that isn't the same distance as virtual objects will piss off your brain, because it knows something is going on, and hates being tricked without consent. Some people I think can ignore this effect to some extent, others cannot. It also strains your eyes more than focusing on an actual 2D screen so increases eye fatigue compared.
- NonNefarious 4y ago
  If that's your idea of a fun viewing party, go for it. I'll stick with the big-screen experience.

jnsie 4y ago

How long before we can replace monitors with virtual monitors via AR? I feel like we take for granted that we have TVs taking up huge chunks of our living rooms and monitors of our offices. Obviously resolution is a (huge) issue. Another, for TV at least, is the communal aspect (synchronized virtual TVs, anyone?) but it seems like the future is on without physical monitors/TVs. I wonder how distant a future that is...

rcarr 4y ago
There’s the nreal air glasses that you can buy today for £400 and some Lenovo glasses that were posted on hn recently that are coming next year. The future is already here: https://youtu.be/bj8hMtWeTUg https://youtu.be/bj8hMtWeTUg
autoexec 4y ago
> How long before we can replace monitors with virtual monitors via AR? Hopefully never. People who don't wear glasses don't need something on their face to watch TV, people who do need glasses don't need to worry about AR googles meaning they have to choose between seeing a screen clearly or everything else and nobody has to worry about the AR goggle company watching and logging everything you see and plastering everything in your line of sight with ads. I don't think physical screens are going anywhere anytime soon. I wouldn't mind having every wall in my home capable of being a screen though. Screen-as-wallpaper would be very nice since you could create smaller virtual screens on any wall wherever you needed one and it would mean you could change your wallpaper/color on a whim.

unstatusthequo 4y ago

Yes these are great. I have one from VAVA, and got a special screen to display it on that also helps prevent other light from affecting the lasers from the UST lens. It’s great for TV. Sure, black levels aren’t perfect, but I’ll give that up for a 10 foot screen. Not sure I’d use it for my office. I feel like an array of monitors or a really nice 8k would be better.