7 ms·

ELI5: wouldn't a large proportion of USA's lawmaker's have ties with a Christian church? Sorry for being uninformed, but why is this an issue?

ziftface 4y ago
It's a cult. I think it would be more akin to a large portion of American lawmakers being ties with Scientology.
- Rackedup 4y ago
  Christianity is kind of a cult too, just more popular.
  - encody 4y ago
    You're technically correct, but I think that's a different definition of the word "cult" from the colloquial, and from what is being used above. Wikipedia's definition describes a cult as "unusual," "socially deviant," and "novel." I don't think Christianity fits that description in America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult
    - pessimizer 4y ago
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charismatic_Christianity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charismatic_Christianity ususual: a tenth of the world's population, but probably a third of the US population. socially deviant: a matter of opinion. novel: I've got books that are older. > With traditions of Pentecostalism already developed in the 18th century out of Protestant evangelicalism, the beginning of the charismatic movement in historic Christian Churches came in 1960 at St. Mark's Episcopal Church in Van Nuys, California. Dennis Bennett, the church's Rector, felt the Holy Spirit within him and announced the event to his Anglican church. > The charismatic movement reached Lutherans and Presbyterians in 1962. Among Roman Catholics, it spread around 1967. Methodists became involved in the charismatic movement in the 1970s. > Some nondenominational evangelical churches decided to follow this movement and take distance from their Pentecostal conventions. Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, California is one of the first evangelical neo-charismatic churches started in 1965. In the United Kingdom, Jesus Army, founded in 1969, is an example of the impact outside of the United States. The spread of the charismatic movement outside of the US was also encouraged by Bennett, who traveled to Vancouver to minister there. Many other congregations were established in the rest of the world. Modern churches internationally have embraced the charismatic movement or adapted their own practices to incorporate it. In the United Kingdom, the house church movement has grown to include charismatic practices. Hillsong Church in Australia is another example of a Pentecostal church that incorporates the charismatic movement. The neo-charismatic movement, also known as the third-wave, has also spread widely since 1970; these churches often reject the charismatic or Pentecostal label but accept the general practice of accepting gifts of the Spirit. > Some scholars attribute the quick and successful spread of charismatic Christianity to its successful use of mass media platforms, but also to the physical experience of religion that it provides, which creates a personal connection to spiritual mediation for believers.
      - HereIGoAgain 4y ago
        America =/= the rest of the world That was a pretty underhanded attempt it twisting the facts to fit a narrative.
        pessimizer 4y ago
        I don't know how to not be underhanded if mentioning that it applies to 1/3 of Americans in the second line of my comment is somehow sneaky, but thanks for ignoring 90% of the comment entirely. My grandfather has hats older than charismatic Christianity.
- YeahNO 4y ago
  One person's established religion is just someone else's cult. They all engage in indoctrination and belief in magical thinking with absolutely no proof in the existence of its deity or deities.
  - hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
    Semi-agree, but I think there are 2 fundamental differences between established religions and cults: 1. Complete shunning of non-cult members, and even harsher shunning of ex-members. This one may be a gray area, as certainly many religions identify all members of other religions as "going to hell", and I know Mormons who have been excommunicated for being gay. Still, the level of ostracism in mainstream religions is nothing compared to, for example, what happens if you try to leave Scientology. Scientologists declare you a "subversive person", stalk you, and essentially try to ruin you. I know many folks who have left the Catholic church, but in all honestly the Catholic church still tries to welcome them back with open arms. 2. Be secretive about the details of the cult before you are "bought in". Say what you will about organized religion, but it's pretty trivial to get the full text of the Bible, Koran, and other religious writings. Meanwhile, Scientology requires you to pay thousands and thousands of dollars to slowly get access to their screeds, and they have gone after ex-members who have attempted to publish this information.
    - wahnfrieden 4y ago
      seems odd to not acknowledge how the non-secretive nature of modern christian religion is such a recent (technological and social) development and still holds some fringe controversy at similar levels as these other extreme cults
    - knodi123 4y ago
      > Still, the level of ostracism in mainstream religions is nothing compared to, for example, what happens if you try to leave Scientology. Worldwide, a majority of muslims support the idea of a death penalty for apostasy (renouncing the religion). Defining a cult is a lot harder than it sounds at first glance. My personal definition, which is not very useful since it's so subjective, is "A cult is a new religion formed on purpose by a charismatic person who is knowingly lying in order to gain temporal power."
- badRNG 4y ago
  What exactly separates a "cult" from any other church? It seems that the word is often lobbed against minority religions that either aren't mainstream (or somehow related to mainstream religions), are recent in origin, or are viewed as eccentric or peculiar. There are truly damaging religious groups, but this doesn't seem to be what is referenced by the word cult. It seems to be used more often to describe religions that are unconnected (or less connected) to religions considered "normal" like Christianity, Islam, etc.
  - Algent 4y ago
    > What exactly separates a "cult" from any other church? Usually the difference between a cult and a sect is how hard it is to leave it. church more usually define practice of the "established religions" or as long as it stay close enough to it.
    - nradov 4y ago
      Islam is usually considered an established religion. And yet in some countries run by extremist fundamentalists, apostasy is literally punishable by death. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam?wprov=sfla1
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
  - Mountain_Skies 4y ago
    While I won't suggest this is society's distinction between the two, in my mind it's about what happens if you exert independent thought that conflicts with the institution's beliefs and what happens if you attempt to leave the group. Many ex-Mormons claim their former church is a cult and that life in Mormon dominated areas become very difficult for those who have left the faith. Same for Jehovah's Witness but the impact is smaller because not many areas are dominated by them and you don't have to move far to get away from it. On the other hand, the worst cults will hunt you down across the country (and possibly the Earth) if your existence is offensive enough to them, which isn't something typically seen when leaving a mainstream Christian religion. A Mormon in Alabama leaving the church isn't likely to face much social ostracism while a Southern Baptist might, especially if they reject Christianity entirely, but their life isn't likely to be in danger.
- castrodd 4y ago
  I agree with you. But all churches start as cults. Romans viewed Christians the same way most Americans view Scientologists. Actually, Romans killed Christians, so probably they viewed them a tad bit worse.
  - colinmhayes 4y ago
    The difference is that Christianity has a huge amount of buy in among the American people. The unification church can’t really say the same about the Japanese people, and in some ways in antithetical to the LDPs nationalistic politics since the church is run by Koreans.
- coliveira 4y ago
  Christianity was a cult during the Roman empire. The only difference is the reach of these religious entities.
  - the_af 4y ago
    Agreed about Christianity, disagreed that it's the only difference. There is a set of cult-like behavior that distinguishes modern cults from mainstream established religions. Those practices are an important distinction. Also, the mindset required to join a fringe or secretive cult today that shuns the rest of society, and is shunned by society in turn, seems relevant to me.
- bnralt 4y ago
  It's worth pointing out that American lawmakers also have ties with the Unification Church. A couple of decades ago its founder, Sun Myung Moon, actually had a coronation in a U.S. Senate office building that was attended by numerous U.S. Senators and Congressmembers. He was declared humanity's messiah in the ceremony: > Mr. Davis says he held the wife's crown and was ''a bit surprised'' by Mr. Moon's Messiah remarks, which were delivered in Korean but accompanied by a written translation. In them, he said emperors, kings and presidents had ''declared to all heaven and earth that Reverend Sun Myung Moon is none other than humanity's Savior, Messiah, Returning Lord and True Parent.'' > By Wednesday, after news of the event had been reported in the online magazine Salon and various newspapers, Capitol Hill was in full-blown backpedaling mode, as lawmakers who attended but missed the coronation -- or saw it and did not think much of it -- struggled to explain themselves. The Washington Times, a conservative D.C. newspaper that has many prominent conservatives on its staff (Tony Blankly, Larry Kudlow, Tony Snow) was also founded by Sun Myung Moon and owned by the Unification Church[2]. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/24/us/a-crowning-at-the-capital-creates-a-stir.html https://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/24/us/a-crowning-at-the-capi... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/sun-myung-moon-dies-at-92-washington-times-owner-led-the-unification-church/2012/09/02/001b747a-f531-11e1-aab7-f199a16396cf_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/sun-myung-...
- pessimizer 4y ago
  But plenty of them have connections to weird cults, also, due to the US largely being (especially in governance) a Protestant country. Protestantism isn't a religion, it's thousands of religions, each having between 1 and 100 leaders with constituencies between the size of a family or the population of a state. For example, H. Clinton's relationship with The Family http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family_(Christian_political_organization) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family_(Christian_political... or Amy Coney Barrett's People of Praise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_Praise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_Praise. American lawmakers are at least as if not more religiously bizarre than Japanese ones.
vorpalhex 4y ago
Imagine if 50% of US lawmakers had deep intimate connections with the Mormons or Scientologists.
- jakeinspace 4y ago
  Well, in Utah I imagine that’s the case.
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    In Utah that situation would have majority popular support.
  - vorpalhex 4y ago
    As a politician, it is not desirable to be connected to the Mormon church (they want to put their finger on the scales, you have to tithe a lot, etc). You want the credentials but not the cost, or you end up in a very hard balancing act with a lot of internal politics. There are Mormon politicians in Utah - but not as many as you would think. It looks like currently three Utah districts have Mormon reps. Locally you may see a lot more Mormons as the political balancing act is overall easier.
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
- 1270018080 4y ago
  I really can't see majors differences between socially conservative evangelical Christians and those other groups, if we're talking the harm they can cause politically.
  - welshwelsh 4y ago
    There's no difference, it's just that evangelical cults are much bigger and more accepted in the US.
    - 4y ago
adultSwim 4y ago
A better comparison might be if you discovered many US politicians having ties to Wahhabi mosques set up by Saudi intelligence. Note: I do not in any way support anti-Islam sentiment. Just making up an example of a newer foreign religious community.
- themaninthedark 4y ago
  I was just about to make this analogy but it would be more akin to the mosques having ties to Iran, a state with nuclear ambitions and leadership that is hostile to the US, as opposed to Saudi Arabia where they don't have nuclear ambitions(that I know of) and the leadership is at least friendly with our leaders even if significant parts of the population may not be. Edit to add the same disclaimer the parent has: Note: I do not in any way support anti-Islam sentiment.
  - 8note 4y ago
    You could spin it around even further to say there's a bunch of Canadian politicians with ties to evangelical american churches. America fits the bill as a country with nuclear ambitions, and has done plenty of unfavourable trade shenanigans that said politicians have let slide
    - themaninthedark 4y ago
      America as a county does not have nuclear ambitions, we already have nuclear weapons and delivery mechanisms. The phrase nuclear ambitions refers to a country that does not have nuclear weapons and a way to deliver them but want to obtain them, hence ambition. If you are against nuclear proliferation, you want countries to stop developing and creating nuclear weapons. Iran is used in this case as a foil for North Korea as they are both signors to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons; Iran(1970), North Korea(1985). Both countries have continued to work to develop nuclear weapons, with North Korea having conducted successful nuclear tests.
adultSwim 4y ago
Moonies have had influence in both Korea and Japan. This is a big deal as Korea harbors strong anti-Japanese sentiment, due to Japan's brutal occupation of Korea. If I was Korean, I could imagine feeling that these are pro-Japanese collaborators. This is also partly why Abe was so controversial. Instead of apologizing for Japan's occupation of Korea, he repeatedly signaled a desire to return to those times.
warabe 4y ago
1. they have caused a variety of social problems, including dozens of civil and criminal lawsuits 2. they have close ties to North Korea. When they met with North Korean leader Kim, it is estimated that as much as $4.5 billion was given to North Korea as donations. This means that the Unification Church is also part of the source of funds for North Korea's nuclear missiles. 3. The Unification Church's doctrine is very anti-Japanese and Korean nationalismistic. For example, according to their dogma, Japan, as an Eva country, must devote all of its wealth to Korea, and the language of all nations must be unified in Korean, etc. Please note that these anti-Japanese doctrine has actually caused damage like high donations. After all, from the Japanese perspective, the Unification Church's problem is not just a religious issue, but also a security threat.
- masterof0 4y ago
  1. Roe v Wade? 2. There are many evangelical churches in the US that send money to dictatorships, for example, [1], [2] , I can collect you a longer list. 3. This point is clearly very specific to Japan, I can't find a bijection within a few minutes. But, we aren't that different , really. 1. https://nnoc.org/pastors-for-peace-continue-support-to-cuba/ https://nnoc.org/pastors-for-peace-continue-support-to-cuba/ 2. https://juicyecumenism.com/2019/11/13/churches-supporting-venezuelan-dictatorship/ https://juicyecumenism.com/2019/11/13/churches-supporting-ve... Edit: Spacing
  - endominus 4y ago
    The bijection you are looking for might be the evangelical groups in the US (including some politicians) who support Israel because they believe that if all jews return there, the eschaton will begin. Think what you will about their goals, it is difficult to reconcile the literal apocalypse as "good for America."
  - warabe 4y ago
    3. Yes, this is very unique problem in Japan and that's why it is difficult to see this issue. > But, we aren't that different , really. I am not sure if I understand your point. Both U.S. and Japan have relatively loose regulation against cult groups, but as a Japanese citizen, I think this situation should be changed.
flanbiscuit 4y ago
In the US we have many people who are 'christian' but they do not all go to the same church. What's happening in Japan is like saying that a majority of U.S. lawmakers went specifically to Joel Olsteen's church.
photochemsyn 4y ago
I think a decent historical model would be the relationship between Spain's fascist government under Generalísimo Francisco Franco and the Opus Dei sect founded by Josemaría Escrivá: > "Many newly published Spanish history textbooks agree that the Opus Dei had a strong influence in the Franco regime. Moreover, Opus Dei developed itself in its early days during the Franco regime. According to these books, Opus Dei was not only linked but also tightly interwoven with the power structures of the Francoist authoritarian government soon after the Spanish Civil War, although its stronger involvement in the government came only in the late 1950s. It had at least 8 ministers during Franco's rule. This was in keeping with the organization's aim of influencing the development of society indirectly..." https://www.primidi.com/opus_dei_and_politics/francisco_francos_regime https://www.primidi.com/opus_dei_and_politics/francisco_fran...
zackees 4y ago
[dead]
MomoXenosaga 4y ago
It's easier to make fun of other countries. If memory serves Jesus said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Americans in particular should not even be allowed to look at stones.

ziftface 4y ago

It's a cult. I think it would be more akin to a large portion of American lawmakers being ties with Scientology.

Rackedup 4y ago
Christianity is kind of a cult too, just more popular.
- encody 4y ago
  You're technically correct, but I think that's a different definition of the word "cult" from the colloquial, and from what is being used above. Wikipedia's definition describes a cult as "unusual," "socially deviant," and "novel." I don't think Christianity fits that description in America. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult
  - pessimizer 4y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charismatic_Christianity https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charismatic_Christianity ususual: a tenth of the world's population, but probably a third of the US population. socially deviant: a matter of opinion. novel: I've got books that are older. > With traditions of Pentecostalism already developed in the 18th century out of Protestant evangelicalism, the beginning of the charismatic movement in historic Christian Churches came in 1960 at St. Mark's Episcopal Church in Van Nuys, California. Dennis Bennett, the church's Rector, felt the Holy Spirit within him and announced the event to his Anglican church. > The charismatic movement reached Lutherans and Presbyterians in 1962. Among Roman Catholics, it spread around 1967. Methodists became involved in the charismatic movement in the 1970s. > Some nondenominational evangelical churches decided to follow this movement and take distance from their Pentecostal conventions. Calvary Chapel Costa Mesa, California is one of the first evangelical neo-charismatic churches started in 1965. In the United Kingdom, Jesus Army, founded in 1969, is an example of the impact outside of the United States. The spread of the charismatic movement outside of the US was also encouraged by Bennett, who traveled to Vancouver to minister there. Many other congregations were established in the rest of the world. Modern churches internationally have embraced the charismatic movement or adapted their own practices to incorporate it. In the United Kingdom, the house church movement has grown to include charismatic practices. Hillsong Church in Australia is another example of a Pentecostal church that incorporates the charismatic movement. The neo-charismatic movement, also known as the third-wave, has also spread widely since 1970; these churches often reject the charismatic or Pentecostal label but accept the general practice of accepting gifts of the Spirit. > Some scholars attribute the quick and successful spread of charismatic Christianity to its successful use of mass media platforms, but also to the physical experience of religion that it provides, which creates a personal connection to spiritual mediation for believers.
    - HereIGoAgain 4y ago
      America =/= the rest of the world That was a pretty underhanded attempt it twisting the facts to fit a narrative.
      - pessimizer 4y ago
        I don't know how to not be underhanded if mentioning that it applies to 1/3 of Americans in the second line of my comment is somehow sneaky, but thanks for ignoring 90% of the comment entirely. My grandfather has hats older than charismatic Christianity.
YeahNO 4y ago
One person's established religion is just someone else's cult. They all engage in indoctrination and belief in magical thinking with absolutely no proof in the existence of its deity or deities.
- hn_throwaway_99 4y ago
  Semi-agree, but I think there are 2 fundamental differences between established religions and cults: 1. Complete shunning of non-cult members, and even harsher shunning of ex-members. This one may be a gray area, as certainly many religions identify all members of other religions as "going to hell", and I know Mormons who have been excommunicated for being gay. Still, the level of ostracism in mainstream religions is nothing compared to, for example, what happens if you try to leave Scientology. Scientologists declare you a "subversive person", stalk you, and essentially try to ruin you. I know many folks who have left the Catholic church, but in all honestly the Catholic church still tries to welcome them back with open arms. 2. Be secretive about the details of the cult before you are "bought in". Say what you will about organized religion, but it's pretty trivial to get the full text of the Bible, Koran, and other religious writings. Meanwhile, Scientology requires you to pay thousands and thousands of dollars to slowly get access to their screeds, and they have gone after ex-members who have attempted to publish this information.
  - wahnfrieden 4y ago
    seems odd to not acknowledge how the non-secretive nature of modern christian religion is such a recent (technological and social) development and still holds some fringe controversy at similar levels as these other extreme cults
  - knodi123 4y ago
    > Still, the level of ostracism in mainstream religions is nothing compared to, for example, what happens if you try to leave Scientology. Worldwide, a majority of muslims support the idea of a death penalty for apostasy (renouncing the religion). Defining a cult is a lot harder than it sounds at first glance. My personal definition, which is not very useful since it's so subjective, is "A cult is a new religion formed on purpose by a charismatic person who is knowingly lying in order to gain temporal power."
badRNG 4y ago
What exactly separates a "cult" from any other church? It seems that the word is often lobbed against minority religions that either aren't mainstream (or somehow related to mainstream religions), are recent in origin, or are viewed as eccentric or peculiar. There are truly damaging religious groups, but this doesn't seem to be what is referenced by the word cult. It seems to be used more often to describe religions that are unconnected (or less connected) to religions considered "normal" like Christianity, Islam, etc.
- Algent 4y ago
  > What exactly separates a "cult" from any other church? Usually the difference between a cult and a sect is how hard it is to leave it. church more usually define practice of the "established religions" or as long as it stay close enough to it.
  - nradov 4y ago
    Islam is usually considered an established religion. And yet in some countries run by extremist fundamentalists, apostasy is literally punishable by death. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostasy_in_Islam?wprov=sfla1
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
- Mountain_Skies 4y ago
  While I won't suggest this is society's distinction between the two, in my mind it's about what happens if you exert independent thought that conflicts with the institution's beliefs and what happens if you attempt to leave the group. Many ex-Mormons claim their former church is a cult and that life in Mormon dominated areas become very difficult for those who have left the faith. Same for Jehovah's Witness but the impact is smaller because not many areas are dominated by them and you don't have to move far to get away from it. On the other hand, the worst cults will hunt you down across the country (and possibly the Earth) if your existence is offensive enough to them, which isn't something typically seen when leaving a mainstream Christian religion. A Mormon in Alabama leaving the church isn't likely to face much social ostracism while a Southern Baptist might, especially if they reject Christianity entirely, but their life isn't likely to be in danger.
castrodd 4y ago
I agree with you. But all churches start as cults. Romans viewed Christians the same way most Americans view Scientologists. Actually, Romans killed Christians, so probably they viewed them a tad bit worse.
- colinmhayes 4y ago
  The difference is that Christianity has a huge amount of buy in among the American people. The unification church can’t really say the same about the Japanese people, and in some ways in antithetical to the LDPs nationalistic politics since the church is run by Koreans.
coliveira 4y ago
Christianity was a cult during the Roman empire. The only difference is the reach of these religious entities.
- the_af 4y ago
  Agreed about Christianity, disagreed that it's the only difference. There is a set of cult-like behavior that distinguishes modern cults from mainstream established religions. Those practices are an important distinction. Also, the mindset required to join a fringe or secretive cult today that shuns the rest of society, and is shunned by society in turn, seems relevant to me.
bnralt 4y ago
It's worth pointing out that American lawmakers also have ties with the Unification Church. A couple of decades ago its founder, Sun Myung Moon, actually had a coronation in a U.S. Senate office building that was attended by numerous U.S. Senators and Congressmembers. He was declared humanity's messiah in the ceremony: > Mr. Davis says he held the wife's crown and was ''a bit surprised'' by Mr. Moon's Messiah remarks, which were delivered in Korean but accompanied by a written translation. In them, he said emperors, kings and presidents had ''declared to all heaven and earth that Reverend Sun Myung Moon is none other than humanity's Savior, Messiah, Returning Lord and True Parent.'' > By Wednesday, after news of the event had been reported in the online magazine Salon and various newspapers, Capitol Hill was in full-blown backpedaling mode, as lawmakers who attended but missed the coronation -- or saw it and did not think much of it -- struggled to explain themselves. The Washington Times, a conservative D.C. newspaper that has many prominent conservatives on its staff (Tony Blankly, Larry Kudlow, Tony Snow) was also founded by Sun Myung Moon and owned by the Unification Church[2]. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/24/us/a-crowning-at-the-capital-creates-a-stir.html https://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/24/us/a-crowning-at-the-capi... [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/sun-myung-moon-dies-at-92-washington-times-owner-led-the-unification-church/2012/09/02/001b747a-f531-11e1-aab7-f199a16396cf_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/sun-myung-...
pessimizer 4y ago
But plenty of them have connections to weird cults, also, due to the US largely being (especially in governance) a Protestant country. Protestantism isn't a religion, it's thousands of religions, each having between 1 and 100 leaders with constituencies between the size of a family or the population of a state. For example, H. Clinton's relationship with The Family http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family_(Christian_political_organization) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Family_(Christian_political... or Amy Coney Barrett's People of Praise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_Praise https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/People_of_Praise. American lawmakers are at least as if not more religiously bizarre than Japanese ones.

vorpalhex 4y ago

Imagine if 50% of US lawmakers had deep intimate connections with the Mormons or Scientologists.

jakeinspace 4y ago
Well, in Utah I imagine that’s the case.
- pessimizer 4y ago
  In Utah that situation would have majority popular support.
- vorpalhex 4y ago
  As a politician, it is not desirable to be connected to the Mormon church (they want to put their finger on the scales, you have to tithe a lot, etc). You want the credentials but not the cost, or you end up in a very hard balancing act with a lot of internal politics. There are Mormon politicians in Utah - but not as many as you would think. It looks like currently three Utah districts have Mormon reps. Locally you may see a lot more Mormons as the political balancing act is overall easier.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
1270018080 4y ago
I really can't see majors differences between socially conservative evangelical Christians and those other groups, if we're talking the harm they can cause politically.
- welshwelsh 4y ago
  There's no difference, it's just that evangelical cults are much bigger and more accepted in the US.
  - 4y ago

adultSwim 4y ago

A better comparison might be if you discovered many US politicians having ties to Wahhabi mosques set up by Saudi intelligence. Note: I do not in any way support anti-Islam sentiment. Just making up an example of a newer foreign religious community.

themaninthedark 4y ago
I was just about to make this analogy but it would be more akin to the mosques having ties to Iran, a state with nuclear ambitions and leadership that is hostile to the US, as opposed to Saudi Arabia where they don't have nuclear ambitions(that I know of) and the leadership is at least friendly with our leaders even if significant parts of the population may not be. Edit to add the same disclaimer the parent has: Note: I do not in any way support anti-Islam sentiment.
- 8note 4y ago
  You could spin it around even further to say there's a bunch of Canadian politicians with ties to evangelical american churches. America fits the bill as a country with nuclear ambitions, and has done plenty of unfavourable trade shenanigans that said politicians have let slide
  - themaninthedark 4y ago
    America as a county does not have nuclear ambitions, we already have nuclear weapons and delivery mechanisms. The phrase nuclear ambitions refers to a country that does not have nuclear weapons and a way to deliver them but want to obtain them, hence ambition. If you are against nuclear proliferation, you want countries to stop developing and creating nuclear weapons. Iran is used in this case as a foil for North Korea as they are both signors to the Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons; Iran(1970), North Korea(1985). Both countries have continued to work to develop nuclear weapons, with North Korea having conducted successful nuclear tests.

adultSwim 4y ago

Moonies have had influence in both Korea and Japan. This is a big deal as Korea harbors strong anti-Japanese sentiment, due to Japan's brutal occupation of Korea. If I was Korean, I could imagine feeling that these are pro-Japanese collaborators. This is also partly why Abe was so controversial. Instead of apologizing for Japan's occupation of Korea, he repeatedly signaled a desire to return to those times.

warabe 4y ago

1. they have caused a variety of social problems, including dozens of civil and criminal lawsuits 2. they have close ties to North Korea. When they met with North Korean leader Kim, it is estimated that as much as $4.5 billion was given to North Korea as donations. This means that the Unification Church is also part of the source of funds for North Korea's nuclear missiles. 3. The Unification Church's doctrine is very anti-Japanese and Korean nationalismistic. For example, according to their dogma, Japan, as an Eva country, must devote all of its wealth to Korea, and the language of all nations must be unified in Korean, etc. Please note that these anti-Japanese doctrine has actually caused damage like high donations. After all, from the Japanese perspective, the Unification Church's problem is not just a religious issue, but also a security threat.

masterof0 4y ago
1. Roe v Wade? 2. There are many evangelical churches in the US that send money to dictatorships, for example, [1], [2] , I can collect you a longer list. 3. This point is clearly very specific to Japan, I can't find a bijection within a few minutes. But, we aren't that different , really. 1. https://nnoc.org/pastors-for-peace-continue-support-to-cuba/ https://nnoc.org/pastors-for-peace-continue-support-to-cuba/ 2. https://juicyecumenism.com/2019/11/13/churches-supporting-venezuelan-dictatorship/ https://juicyecumenism.com/2019/11/13/churches-supporting-ve... Edit: Spacing
- endominus 4y ago
  The bijection you are looking for might be the evangelical groups in the US (including some politicians) who support Israel because they believe that if all jews return there, the eschaton will begin. Think what you will about their goals, it is difficult to reconcile the literal apocalypse as "good for America."
- warabe 4y ago
  3. Yes, this is very unique problem in Japan and that's why it is difficult to see this issue. > But, we aren't that different , really. I am not sure if I understand your point. Both U.S. and Japan have relatively loose regulation against cult groups, but as a Japanese citizen, I think this situation should be changed.

flanbiscuit 4y ago

In the US we have many people who are 'christian' but they do not all go to the same church. What's happening in Japan is like saying that a majority of U.S. lawmakers went specifically to Joel Olsteen's church.

photochemsyn 4y ago

I think a decent historical model would be the relationship between Spain's fascist government under Generalísimo Francisco Franco and the Opus Dei sect founded by Josemaría Escrivá: > "Many newly published Spanish history textbooks agree that the Opus Dei had a strong influence in the Franco regime. Moreover, Opus Dei developed itself in its early days during the Franco regime. According to these books, Opus Dei was not only linked but also tightly interwoven with the power structures of the Francoist authoritarian government soon after the Spanish Civil War, although its stronger involvement in the government came only in the late 1950s. It had at least 8 ministers during Franco's rule. This was in keeping with the organization's aim of influencing the development of society indirectly..." https://www.primidi.com/opus_dei_and_politics/francisco_francos_regime https://www.primidi.com/opus_dei_and_politics/francisco_fran...

zackees 4y ago

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MomoXenosaga 4y ago

It's easier to make fun of other countries. If memory serves Jesus said "let he who is without sin cast the first stone". Americans in particular should not even be allowed to look at stones.