4 ms·

I wish there was a showroom or something I could visit to try them all out and see what fits my hands. I don't mind dropping $300 on a keyboard once, but I don'

I wish there was a showroom or something I could visit to try them all out and see what fits my hands. I don't mind dropping $300 on a keyboard once, but I don't want to buy 10 different keyboards just to try them and then have to sell the ones I don't want.

lrvick 4y ago
FWIIW friends and I have used, bought, and built a lot of these but the build quality and comfort of the Moonlander surpasses everything. Yet to hear anyone that has tried one that switched away from it. It is also the most expensive, but in this case you get what you pay for IMO.
- hosteur 4y ago
  I haven't tried the moonlander. In which ways do you find it superior to the Ergodox EZ? What made me go for the EZ over the moonlander was the extra thumb buttons. Admitted, I do not use those too often, however, they are still quite useful.
  - lrvick 4y ago
    I thought I would miss the extra thumb cluster buttons but the firmware improvements on long-press vs short-press to get different keys have made them needless. I much prefer having the big modifiers. Build quality is also much higher, and the attached wrist rests really help after standalone ones floating all over my desk for years.
    - breckenedge 4y ago
      I find 6 thumb keys is all I need for all day typing. I use home row mods, so Ctrl, Alt, GUI and Shift are all accessed via holding down a home row key. Some folks make do with 4 thumb keys.
- somedudetbh 4y ago
  For anyone else reading this thread- FWIW I bought a Moonlander a few months ago and I haven't been able to switch to it. It's missing just enough keys that I haven't been able to figure out a layout that seems good enough to stick with long enough to get used to it, and so when I use it it's still painfully slow. There are some extra keys, but some of them seem hard to use well (the big red triangle keys at the top of the thumb clusters) and other things that sound great in practice, like "hold" = modifier but "tap" = insert some character, in practice have turned out to have more annoying rough edges than I had hoped. It's very well-made though, the configurator works good, etc. Seems like a high-quality gadget, but I wish I thought a bit more about what I would do for arrow keys, special characters, modifiers, etc. I found the Kinesis thumb clusters a lot more usable when I used to have one, but I really wanted to try a split keyboard this time.
  - 0xabe 4y ago
    Have you tried using the extra 2 layers? Multiplies the number of keys. Also, print your layout while you learn it to remember where things are.
    - somedudetbh 4y ago
      yeah I have to figure out how to use the extra layers better, and then use it enough to get used to them I think. Printing out is a good tip, thanks.
- konfusinomicon 4y ago
  can confirm..was skeptical but now I could never go back to a normal layout for daily driving...it's a dream and worth every penny and more
hosteur 4y ago
I agree. However, I find that you can find a few used off of ebay. And also, they seem to hold their resale value pretty well. So you can buy one and see if it works for you and then sell it if you regret. I think the problem with a showroom is that you really need to invest at least a week or two to get used to the split keyboard. But for me, it was totally worth it.
breckenedge 4y ago
I have long wished there was a keyboard rental service. Trouble is that an ortho layout can take months to get used to. I am still 20% slower on an ortho board than I was on a laptop keyboard, but the comfort is worth it, especially for shoulder pain.
- xani_ 4y ago
  The question is whether the comfort is because of ortho, or just because of nice big split layout keyboard?
  - comfypotato 4y ago
    I’d guess that a reduction in shoulder pain is a result of switching to “split”. I know that my posture improved by switching to split. It’s one of the biggest changes you can make in keyboarding I think (from the perspective of total muscle activation). In the end it all comes down to what you like, though.
Phrenzy 4y ago
I have an Ergodox EZ. IMO this product type is a tough sell. I agree, a showroom would be helpful. I stumbled upon a Meetup group of mechanical keyboard aficionados, but it was after I bought my Ergodox. I was a bit of a hero when I did mention what I had. I had mine for 6 to 9 months and it just didn't feel like it was for me. I didn't have all the keys a normal keyboard had, I couldn't remember how I mapped the keys, etc. So I went back to my ergonomic Microsoft keyboard. It only took a couple of days to realize how much better the Ergodox is. I remapped all my keys and started using it with a new found passion. There are still some tradeoffs, but every once in a while I 'feel' a keypress and I think about how cool my keyboard is. It is worth the journey. If nothing else to realize that it isn't for you. If you spend a reasonable amount of time in front of a computer, it behooves yourself to make the tools as fine as possible.
badlucklottery 4y ago
Kinesis still does 60 day no BS returns for stuff bought directly through them: https://kinesis-ergo.com/support/returns/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/support/returns/ ZSA does 30 day returns: https://ergodox-ez.com/pages/shipping-returns https://ergodox-ez.com/pages/shipping-returns It's only the tip of the iceberg w/r/t the number of keyboards out there but they're the most polished products and they cover a lot of your more exotic bases (split, key wells, thumb clusters, etc.)
sleepybrett 4y ago
look for a /r/mechanicalkeyboard meetup in your area. I wouldn't buy this board, it's a wannabe kinesis advantange but flat. Makes the reach too hard imo.
- denimnerd42 4y ago
  yeah the domes of the kinesis are definitely great.. everything in reach
comfypotato 4y ago
If you’re technically inclined (and a hobbyist tinkerer), you could invest in a 3D printer and get to playing with tweak-able keyboards like the Dactyl Manuform. There’s a whole world of 3D printable ergo that lets you adjust columns, thumbs, etc. such that it perfectly matches your hands. I haven’t dabbled personally, but I think a capable printer can be had for your mentioned $300.00 albeit a lot of labor is required to see a keyboard to fruition.
_ph_ 4y ago
Right. It is strange that there are no good keyboard shops at least in major cities. There are so many parameters involved in finding the right keyboard, testing is so important here.

lrvick 4y ago

FWIIW friends and I have used, bought, and built a lot of these but the build quality and comfort of the Moonlander surpasses everything. Yet to hear anyone that has tried one that switched away from it. It is also the most expensive, but in this case you get what you pay for IMO.

hosteur 4y ago
I haven't tried the moonlander. In which ways do you find it superior to the Ergodox EZ? What made me go for the EZ over the moonlander was the extra thumb buttons. Admitted, I do not use those too often, however, they are still quite useful.
- lrvick 4y ago
  I thought I would miss the extra thumb cluster buttons but the firmware improvements on long-press vs short-press to get different keys have made them needless. I much prefer having the big modifiers. Build quality is also much higher, and the attached wrist rests really help after standalone ones floating all over my desk for years.
  - breckenedge 4y ago
    I find 6 thumb keys is all I need for all day typing. I use home row mods, so Ctrl, Alt, GUI and Shift are all accessed via holding down a home row key. Some folks make do with 4 thumb keys.
somedudetbh 4y ago
For anyone else reading this thread- FWIW I bought a Moonlander a few months ago and I haven't been able to switch to it. It's missing just enough keys that I haven't been able to figure out a layout that seems good enough to stick with long enough to get used to it, and so when I use it it's still painfully slow. There are some extra keys, but some of them seem hard to use well (the big red triangle keys at the top of the thumb clusters) and other things that sound great in practice, like "hold" = modifier but "tap" = insert some character, in practice have turned out to have more annoying rough edges than I had hoped. It's very well-made though, the configurator works good, etc. Seems like a high-quality gadget, but I wish I thought a bit more about what I would do for arrow keys, special characters, modifiers, etc. I found the Kinesis thumb clusters a lot more usable when I used to have one, but I really wanted to try a split keyboard this time.
- 0xabe 4y ago
  Have you tried using the extra 2 layers? Multiplies the number of keys. Also, print your layout while you learn it to remember where things are.
  - somedudetbh 4y ago
    yeah I have to figure out how to use the extra layers better, and then use it enough to get used to them I think. Printing out is a good tip, thanks.
konfusinomicon 4y ago
can confirm..was skeptical but now I could never go back to a normal layout for daily driving...it's a dream and worth every penny and more

hosteur 4y ago

I agree. However, I find that you can find a few used off of ebay. And also, they seem to hold their resale value pretty well. So you can buy one and see if it works for you and then sell it if you regret. I think the problem with a showroom is that you really need to invest at least a week or two to get used to the split keyboard. But for me, it was totally worth it.

breckenedge 4y ago

I have long wished there was a keyboard rental service. Trouble is that an ortho layout can take months to get used to. I am still 20% slower on an ortho board than I was on a laptop keyboard, but the comfort is worth it, especially for shoulder pain.

xani_ 4y ago
The question is whether the comfort is because of ortho, or just because of nice big split layout keyboard?
- comfypotato 4y ago
  I’d guess that a reduction in shoulder pain is a result of switching to “split”. I know that my posture improved by switching to split. It’s one of the biggest changes you can make in keyboarding I think (from the perspective of total muscle activation). In the end it all comes down to what you like, though.

Phrenzy 4y ago

I have an Ergodox EZ. IMO this product type is a tough sell. I agree, a showroom would be helpful. I stumbled upon a Meetup group of mechanical keyboard aficionados, but it was after I bought my Ergodox. I was a bit of a hero when I did mention what I had. I had mine for 6 to 9 months and it just didn't feel like it was for me. I didn't have all the keys a normal keyboard had, I couldn't remember how I mapped the keys, etc. So I went back to my ergonomic Microsoft keyboard. It only took a couple of days to realize how much better the Ergodox is. I remapped all my keys and started using it with a new found passion. There are still some tradeoffs, but every once in a while I 'feel' a keypress and I think about how cool my keyboard is. It is worth the journey. If nothing else to realize that it isn't for you. If you spend a reasonable amount of time in front of a computer, it behooves yourself to make the tools as fine as possible.

badlucklottery 4y ago

Kinesis still does 60 day no BS returns for stuff bought directly through them: https://kinesis-ergo.com/support/returns/ https://kinesis-ergo.com/support/returns/ ZSA does 30 day returns: https://ergodox-ez.com/pages/shipping-returns https://ergodox-ez.com/pages/shipping-returns It's only the tip of the iceberg w/r/t the number of keyboards out there but they're the most polished products and they cover a lot of your more exotic bases (split, key wells, thumb clusters, etc.)

sleepybrett 4y ago

look for a /r/mechanicalkeyboard meetup in your area. I wouldn't buy this board, it's a wannabe kinesis advantange but flat. Makes the reach too hard imo.

denimnerd42 4y ago
yeah the domes of the kinesis are definitely great.. everything in reach

comfypotato 4y ago

If you’re technically inclined (and a hobbyist tinkerer), you could invest in a 3D printer and get to playing with tweak-able keyboards like the Dactyl Manuform. There’s a whole world of 3D printable ergo that lets you adjust columns, thumbs, etc. such that it perfectly matches your hands. I haven’t dabbled personally, but I think a capable printer can be had for your mentioned $300.00 albeit a lot of labor is required to see a keyboard to fruition.

_ph_ 4y ago

Right. It is strange that there are no good keyboard shops at least in major cities. There are so many parameters involved in finding the right keyboard, testing is so important here.