8 ms·

It is inconceivable (for someone reading from Europe), that you still left a tip, given the situation

krageon 4y ago
Even if they absolutely need it to eat or it is "normal" (as I was repeatedly informed in NA), I refuse to tip an asshole. It is not my problem that they go hungry, it is my problem that they made my day worse. Why reward that behaviour?
danielbln 4y ago
In tipping countries, a tiny tip is often more insulting than no tip. Ludicrous to me as well coming from Europe, but hey, that's how they do it.
- shultays 4y ago
  I wish people gave me their insults or bad feedback in the form of small tips
  - gambiting 4y ago
    "you've done an extremely poor job this year, so we're only giving you a small payraise this year" - insanity.
- simonh 4y ago
  Continental Europe used to be a tipping zone, but it seems like it suddenly stopped about 20 years ago.
  - parasti 4y ago
    Why do you think that happened? Honestly curious.
    - MayeulC 4y ago
      Credit cards, maybe? Then, I don't know how it was back then. Was it really a thing? My friends and I still leave tips when service is exceptionally good.
      - glandium 4y ago
        It's certainly true that "keep the change" was quite common, and well, you can't do that with digital money.
    - simonh 4y ago
      I really don’t know, I’m a Brit and found that one year I went on a business trip and suddenly it had just stopped. I wouldn’t say the IK really has a tipping culture. We do it in restaurants occasionally, especially ones where drinking is a big part of it, but nobody will get annoyed if you don’t. My daughters work part time waitressing at a restaurant near us that’s pretty expensive and sells a lot of cocktails and such, and they sometimes come home with £30 in tips. On the continent it used to be required. Waiters at cafes would get very upset if you didn’t tip, or didn’t tip enough. The guys that helped with luggage at hotels too. Then it just stopped. You still can and some do, but the passive aggressive pressure just went, everywhere as far as I can tell.
      - danielbln 4y ago
        Summarising 27 countries with "the continent" might be painting with too broad of a brush, there are quite some differences between the different member states, though there is usually none where more than 10% tips is common, most have the tips embedded in a service fee.
gambiting 4y ago
When I visited America(coming from Europe) that was the biggest shock to me too - we went for a meal with coworkers, the service was absolutely terrible, food was bad, we felt unwelcome the entire time. So at the end of the service I say - well, it was an awful experience, that means we don't leave a tip, right? No no no - say our hosts - you have to leave a tip, otherwise you look like a jerk. I was like.....but surely.....the whole idea of a tip is to reward good service, right? If the service was bad, then why would you tip? I still think about it sometimes. It's like the whole idea of tipping "maybe" started with good intentions(rewarding good service) but now transformed into some kind of idiotic virtue signalling(because at the end of the day, what if we look like jerks for not tipping? literally none of us will ever enter this restaurant again, the only thing we achieved by tipping was rewarding bad service, nothing more nothing less).
- workingon 4y ago
  While I wouldnt have tipped this person, you still tip during regular 'bad service' (like slowness or burnt food or whatever), because even though things didnt meet your expectations doesn't mean you should take advantage of the fact that the state makes it legal to pay servers only $2 an hour. The prices of your shit meal were lower because of this, so you should at least make up the difference to a minimum livable wage, which is the cost it would've been if the state wasnt retrograde. Unless of course you think people who are bad servers don't deserve to make minimum wage.
  - raverbashing 4y ago
    > Unless of course you think people who are bad servers don't deserve to make minimum wage. No but I do think the establishment has the responsibility to list the actual price of services rendered
  - gambiting 4y ago
    >>Unless of course you think people who are bad servers don't deserve to make minimum wage. I think that it shouldn't be the customers responsibility to even know what the server is making, and logically it shouldn't be their responsibility to make sure they are paid X or Y. You come in, order food, pay for the food, leave. The business owner should be responsible to keep their employees compensated well enough that they don't want to leave. But like I said in another comment - the situation in US is a result of literally decades of social conditioning, where the population has been told by business owners that it's their(customers) responsibility to make sure that service workers are compensated well enough to not be in poverty, and it's your personal responsibility to tip or the person will starve. It's gotten to the point where people make this argument in absolute earnest, and truly believe what they say, like it's the most obvious thing in the world. It really is a marvel of social engineering, and a boon for American businesses I'm sure. >>because even though things didnt meet your expectations doesn't mean you should take advantage of the fact that the state makes it legal to pay servers only $2 an hour That actually furthers my point above - the side taking advantage of $2 minimum wage is the employer, not the customer.
8f2ab37a-ed6c 4y ago
In the US you are shamed for not tipping people regardless of how poorly they performed. The argument is that, without tipping, hard working blue collar will fall into dire straits. Them having a bad day and mistreating you doesn't mean they should be condemned to poverty.
- gambiting 4y ago
  >>Them having a bad day and mistreating you doesn't mean they should be condemned to poverty. Do Americans apply the same logic to other areas of life? If your plumber comes over and messes up the installation completely so you have water leaking every time you use a shower, do you still pay them full price for the service? After all maybe they just had a bad day, and that shouldn't condemn them to poverty? Of course I'm reducing it to some absurdity, but to adress your argument in seriousness - it's incredible to me that American businesses managed to successfully shift the perception of responsibility to you(customers) rather than business owners. It's a result of decades of conditioning and being told that it's up to YOU, the customer, to make sure our employees are not "condemed to poverty". It's a feat of social engineering really.
  - moonchrome 4y ago
    >If your plumber comes over and messes up the installation completely so you have water leaking every time you use a shower, do you still pay them full price for the service? After all maybe they just had a bad day, and that shouldn't condemn them to poverty? This is a wrong analogy. If the plumber came in pissed off and was swearing all the time but got the job done then yes I would pay. Would probably not call him again if I was that bothered. If I got served uncooked food I would not pay, but if the waiter was rude and I had to wait long I'll still tip them - less then I would otherwise. And context is a lot here as well - if I see the place is packed and there's like two people doing a shift I can understand they are stressed out and I'm waiting longer cause it's super busy. Am European and honestly feel like tipping vs not tipping says more about you than it does about the service. When I see someone penny counting at the restaurant it usually makes me think less about them. I don't like socialising with miserly people (if I think you have the money to cover it, naturally). Depends on the setting too, if it's just grabbing lunch at the cafeteria then I just pay by card and usually don't tip, but when it's a social thing then yeah - it's a luxury thing you do and share with others.
workingon 4y ago
I like to think he left 69 cents
noja 4y ago
In America a "tip" should be understood as a compulsory wage supplement paid by the customer. It can often also include a traditional "tip" (i.e. for good service). Once you use this definition, everything becomes much simpler.
- thejackgoode 4y ago
  I know this, but whose responsibility it is to clean up this legacy construct that comes from prohibition time, has no good reason to exist today, and causes misery on both sides?
- tremon 4y ago
  Once you use this definition, everything becomes much simpler Only if use a similar newspeak definition for "simpler".
bscphil 4y ago
As an American, I would not have tipped in that situation. I wouldn't have even considered it. I don't think that's far out of the norm for a situation involving extremely poor service and abusive behavior. I could be wrong but I don't think "Americanism" is the explanation for what happened here, though I agree that our approach to tipping is a bit bonkers overall.
- bombcar 4y ago
  The "small tip" is to let them know "I didn't forget to tip, I'm tipping you a tiny amount so you know I'm mad".
  - bscphil 4y ago
    I guess that works in theory, but Americans don't generally "forget" to tip. Every time you sign a receipt there's an explicit line for a tip. Apps like Uber have a button you have to press to not leave a tip.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
988747 4y ago
Not giving tip might be interpreted like you come from the culture where people do not tip. Giving very small tip is clearly an insult :)

Even if they absolutely need it to eat or it is "normal" (as I was repeatedly informed in NA), I refuse to tip an asshole. It is not my problem that they go hungry, it is my problem that they made my day worse. Why reward that behaviour?

danielbln 4y ago

In tipping countries, a tiny tip is often more insulting than no tip. Ludicrous to me as well coming from Europe, but hey, that's how they do it.

shultays 4y ago
I wish people gave me their insults or bad feedback in the form of small tips
- gambiting 4y ago
  "you've done an extremely poor job this year, so we're only giving you a small payraise this year" - insanity.
simonh 4y ago
Continental Europe used to be a tipping zone, but it seems like it suddenly stopped about 20 years ago.
- parasti 4y ago
  Why do you think that happened? Honestly curious.
  - MayeulC 4y ago
    Credit cards, maybe? Then, I don't know how it was back then. Was it really a thing? My friends and I still leave tips when service is exceptionally good.
    - glandium 4y ago
      It's certainly true that "keep the change" was quite common, and well, you can't do that with digital money.
  - simonh 4y ago
    I really don’t know, I’m a Brit and found that one year I went on a business trip and suddenly it had just stopped. I wouldn’t say the IK really has a tipping culture. We do it in restaurants occasionally, especially ones where drinking is a big part of it, but nobody will get annoyed if you don’t. My daughters work part time waitressing at a restaurant near us that’s pretty expensive and sells a lot of cocktails and such, and they sometimes come home with £30 in tips. On the continent it used to be required. Waiters at cafes would get very upset if you didn’t tip, or didn’t tip enough. The guys that helped with luggage at hotels too. Then it just stopped. You still can and some do, but the passive aggressive pressure just went, everywhere as far as I can tell.
    - danielbln 4y ago
      Summarising 27 countries with "the continent" might be painting with too broad of a brush, there are quite some differences between the different member states, though there is usually none where more than 10% tips is common, most have the tips embedded in a service fee.

gambiting 4y ago

When I visited America(coming from Europe) that was the biggest shock to me too - we went for a meal with coworkers, the service was absolutely terrible, food was bad, we felt unwelcome the entire time. So at the end of the service I say - well, it was an awful experience, that means we don't leave a tip, right? No no no - say our hosts - you have to leave a tip, otherwise you look like a jerk. I was like.....but surely.....the whole idea of a tip is to reward good service, right? If the service was bad, then why would you tip? I still think about it sometimes. It's like the whole idea of tipping "maybe" started with good intentions(rewarding good service) but now transformed into some kind of idiotic virtue signalling(because at the end of the day, what if we look like jerks for not tipping? literally none of us will ever enter this restaurant again, the only thing we achieved by tipping was rewarding bad service, nothing more nothing less).

workingon 4y ago
While I wouldnt have tipped this person, you still tip during regular 'bad service' (like slowness or burnt food or whatever), because even though things didnt meet your expectations doesn't mean you should take advantage of the fact that the state makes it legal to pay servers only $2 an hour. The prices of your shit meal were lower because of this, so you should at least make up the difference to a minimum livable wage, which is the cost it would've been if the state wasnt retrograde. Unless of course you think people who are bad servers don't deserve to make minimum wage.
- raverbashing 4y ago
  > Unless of course you think people who are bad servers don't deserve to make minimum wage. No but I do think the establishment has the responsibility to list the actual price of services rendered
- gambiting 4y ago
  >>Unless of course you think people who are bad servers don't deserve to make minimum wage. I think that it shouldn't be the customers responsibility to even know what the server is making, and logically it shouldn't be their responsibility to make sure they are paid X or Y. You come in, order food, pay for the food, leave. The business owner should be responsible to keep their employees compensated well enough that they don't want to leave. But like I said in another comment - the situation in US is a result of literally decades of social conditioning, where the population has been told by business owners that it's their(customers) responsibility to make sure that service workers are compensated well enough to not be in poverty, and it's your personal responsibility to tip or the person will starve. It's gotten to the point where people make this argument in absolute earnest, and truly believe what they say, like it's the most obvious thing in the world. It really is a marvel of social engineering, and a boon for American businesses I'm sure. >>because even though things didnt meet your expectations doesn't mean you should take advantage of the fact that the state makes it legal to pay servers only $2 an hour That actually furthers my point above - the side taking advantage of $2 minimum wage is the employer, not the customer.

8f2ab37a-ed6c 4y ago

In the US you are shamed for not tipping people regardless of how poorly they performed. The argument is that, without tipping, hard working blue collar will fall into dire straits. Them having a bad day and mistreating you doesn't mean they should be condemned to poverty.

gambiting 4y ago
>>Them having a bad day and mistreating you doesn't mean they should be condemned to poverty. Do Americans apply the same logic to other areas of life? If your plumber comes over and messes up the installation completely so you have water leaking every time you use a shower, do you still pay them full price for the service? After all maybe they just had a bad day, and that shouldn't condemn them to poverty? Of course I'm reducing it to some absurdity, but to adress your argument in seriousness - it's incredible to me that American businesses managed to successfully shift the perception of responsibility to you(customers) rather than business owners. It's a result of decades of conditioning and being told that it's up to YOU, the customer, to make sure our employees are not "condemed to poverty". It's a feat of social engineering really.
- moonchrome 4y ago
  >If your plumber comes over and messes up the installation completely so you have water leaking every time you use a shower, do you still pay them full price for the service? After all maybe they just had a bad day, and that shouldn't condemn them to poverty? This is a wrong analogy. If the plumber came in pissed off and was swearing all the time but got the job done then yes I would pay. Would probably not call him again if I was that bothered. If I got served uncooked food I would not pay, but if the waiter was rude and I had to wait long I'll still tip them - less then I would otherwise. And context is a lot here as well - if I see the place is packed and there's like two people doing a shift I can understand they are stressed out and I'm waiting longer cause it's super busy. Am European and honestly feel like tipping vs not tipping says more about you than it does about the service. When I see someone penny counting at the restaurant it usually makes me think less about them. I don't like socialising with miserly people (if I think you have the money to cover it, naturally). Depends on the setting too, if it's just grabbing lunch at the cafeteria then I just pay by card and usually don't tip, but when it's a social thing then yeah - it's a luxury thing you do and share with others.

workingon 4y ago

I like to think he left 69 cents

noja 4y ago

In America a "tip" should be understood as a compulsory wage supplement paid by the customer. It can often also include a traditional "tip" (i.e. for good service). Once you use this definition, everything becomes much simpler.

thejackgoode 4y ago
I know this, but whose responsibility it is to clean up this legacy construct that comes from prohibition time, has no good reason to exist today, and causes misery on both sides?
tremon 4y ago
Once you use this definition, everything becomes much simpler Only if use a similar newspeak definition for "simpler".

bscphil 4y ago

As an American, I would not have tipped in that situation. I wouldn't have even considered it. I don't think that's far out of the norm for a situation involving extremely poor service and abusive behavior. I could be wrong but I don't think "Americanism" is the explanation for what happened here, though I agree that our approach to tipping is a bit bonkers overall.

bombcar 4y ago
The "small tip" is to let them know "I didn't forget to tip, I'm tipping you a tiny amount so you know I'm mad".
- bscphil 4y ago
  I guess that works in theory, but Americans don't generally "forget" to tip. Every time you sign a receipt there's an explicit line for a tip. Apps like Uber have a button you have to press to not leave a tip.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

988747 4y ago

Not giving tip might be interpreted like you come from the culture where people do not tip. Giving very small tip is clearly an insult :)