8 ms·

Last August my wife and I visited Maui, bringing a physical sunscreen (Zinc oxide based, I think). My wife put on so much that her face almost looked like a ka

Last August my wife and I visited Maui, bringing a physical sunscreen (Zinc oxide based, I think). My wife put on so much that her face almost looked like a kabuki actor, and I looked only a little better. On beaches we'd see all those people in bikinis, apparently completely free of sunscreen whiteness. "How come they aren't getting sunburned?" I wondered. "They're using chemical sunscreens," was my wife's answer. And that's often right next to a signpost telling people how those chemicals are killing corals. This is why we can't have nice things.

dehrmann 4y ago
I've used zinc oxide sunscreens without this issue.
- timcederman 4y ago
  So have I, but it's easy to accidentally put on too much, and absorption varies between brands/formulations.
  - dehrmann 4y ago
    I'll give you that. Once you put on too much, it just sorta stops absorbing.
warning26 4y ago
Don't forget, that there are even better chemical sunscreens out there that (probably) don't destroy the reefs. Sadly, they're banned in the us: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/07/us-sunscreen-ingredients-outdated-technology-better-eu-asia/661433/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/07/us-su... Previous discussion on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31954294 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31954294
throwaway1851 4y ago
Only a limited subset of the available chemical filters are suspected of having an effect on coral. Further, even for those filters that are suspected, I have read that the science is inconclusive. I personally am skeptical of the idea that sunscreens are actually responsible for marine ecosystem changes, rather than climate change or other large forces. The majority of a chemical sunscreen formula is inert base. And we’re talking about thin films of sunscreen diluting into a vast body of water. Further, most people at the beach are using water resistant sunscreen, further reducing the potential for harm. Sunscreens are really valuable technology. They prevent skin cancers and sun damage, and I think policy should err on the side of encouraging their use. I further think that reactive, feel-good measures like banning straws and demonizing sunscreen do much more harm than good, because they cause fatigue and apathy about environmental issues and do little to solve them.
- arcticbull 4y ago
  This article has come up before and might interest you. [1] tl;dr: exposure to sunlight without sunscreen has benefits for cardiovascular health - and the kinds of cancer you get from direct exposure to sunlight on a regular basis (basal cell and squamous cell carcinomas) are almost never fatal. The benefits to CV health significantly outweigh the increased risk of these carcinomas. Melanomas only account for 1-3% of skin cancers and are less likely in outdoor workers and tanned people than they are in indoor workers. > “The risk factor for melanoma appears to be intermittent sunshine and sunburn, especially when you’re young,” says Weller. “But there’s evidence that long-term sun exposure associates with less melanoma.” Makes sense, humans probably wouldn't have made it this far without going outside. [1] https://www.outsideonline.com/health/wellness/sunscreen-sun-exposure-skin-cancer-science/ https://www.outsideonline.com/health/wellness/sunscreen-sun-...
  - bearmode 4y ago
    Without sunscreen I burn in just a few minutes and have painful skin for the next few days. I'm okay thanks, I'll keep using it.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - ajb 4y ago
      Resistance to sunburn increases exponentially with regular exposure, and without it falls back to your genetic base level. That's not hyperbole, UV treatment in medical facilities have to start with seconds of treatment which is increased by a percentage each time until you get to effective levels. That's not to recommend that you try doing that yourself, just a weird fact I learned. its hard to calibrate sun exposure. But theoretically starting from very sensitive skin isn't a barrier.
      - refurb 4y ago
        And UV damage is cumulative as well. Even if you ignore melanoma, there are several non-cancerous or pre-cancerous skin conditions from sun exposure. If you go to Asia where most women avoid any sun exposure at all (up to wearing masks and gloves) you’ll note there skin looks amazing even into their 50’s. And the few minutes of exposure you get each day is usually enough to provide vitamin D. I think it’s like 12 min of upper body exposure in moderately intense sunlight is enough.
sgtnoodle 4y ago
There are mineral sunscreens on the market better than paint. I've had good success with 30spf Australian Gold.
Sargos 4y ago
It's possible but locals and I imagine most tourists actually buy sunscreen in Hawaii and it's only legal to sell reef safe sunscreen there. https://www.hawaii-guide.com/blog/hawaii-new-reef-safe-sunscreen-law https://www.hawaii-guide.com/blog/hawaii-new-reef-safe-sunsc...
- btgeekboy 4y ago
  As a tourist, I buy it there. That way I know it's reef-safe without having to look at ingredients, and the few dollars spent vs. carrying a bottle through an airport is well worth it. Many of the dive boats and hotels will offer sunscreen out of a bulk pump, so depending on what you do on the islands, you probably don't need much on your own - just a small tube for your group will do.
- samatman 4y ago
  You're not technically allowed to bring the other stuff onto the islands, though in my experience they don't check, I flew into Maui from Japan one time and brought sunscreen (as you might imagine the ingredients are better across the board, including for reefs) and this wasn't checked at the agriculture scanner. Point is, the regulations to keep those ingredients out of the reefs have been mostly successful.
aboodman 4y ago
A lot of locals just aren't out long enough to worry about it. When you live here you step out for an hour to hang out or get in the water. You're not there all day. Not sure if those were the people you were observing. There are also reef-safe sunscreens that rub in much more clear.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
Arnt 4y ago
I use zinc oxide. Brands vary, some suck IMO. The one I use doesn't show, provided that it's rubbed in really quickly, certainly within less than ten seconds. My wife prefers another brand, which also has the same time limit. This means: Put a largish drop on a fingertip and rub it in, then repeat, and repeat, and repeat. If you squeeze out enough that you need to keep it in the hand instead of on a finger, it's going to show.
mlang79 4y ago
hparadiz 4y ago
Wow what is with this comment and everyone lapping it up. I lived on Maui for a year. They sell reef safe sun screen in every store on the island. We didn't get sun burnt because A) you get used to it and B) because we had reef safe sunscreen that was good enough. But way to pat yourself on the back for no reason. Also a lot of people on Maui actually live there and aren't even tourists.
runnerup 4y ago
There are now "transparent zinc oxide" sunscreens as well. See Dermstore[0] for EltaMD brand products. They grind the zinc oxide to much smaller particle sizes and it still blocks UV but doesnt reflect visible light nearly as much (like 99% reduction in white color). I love it a lot. Zinc Oxide is great for being a true "sunblock" (rather than merely "sunscreen") of broad-spectrum UV (instead of just UVA or just UVB/UVC). Also doesn't interact with endocrine system like many of the chemical sunscreens. https://www.dermstore.com/eltamd-uv-clear-broad-spectrum-spf46/11370303.html https://www.dermstore.com/eltamd-uv-clear-broad-spectrum-spf...

dehrmann 4y ago

I've used zinc oxide sunscreens without this issue.

timcederman 4y ago
So have I, but it's easy to accidentally put on too much, and absorption varies between brands/formulations.
- dehrmann 4y ago
  I'll give you that. Once you put on too much, it just sorta stops absorbing.

warning26 4y ago

Don't forget, that there are even better chemical sunscreens out there that (probably) don't destroy the reefs. Sadly, they're banned in the us: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/07/us-sunscreen-ingredients-outdated-technology-better-eu-asia/661433/ https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2022/07/us-su... Previous discussion on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31954294 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31954294

throwaway1851 4y ago

Only a limited subset of the available chemical filters are suspected of having an effect on coral. Further, even for those filters that are suspected, I have read that the science is inconclusive. I personally am skeptical of the idea that sunscreens are actually responsible for marine ecosystem changes, rather than climate change or other large forces. The majority of a chemical sunscreen formula is inert base. And we’re talking about thin films of sunscreen diluting into a vast body of water. Further, most people at the beach are using water resistant sunscreen, further reducing the potential for harm. Sunscreens are really valuable technology. They prevent skin cancers and sun damage, and I think policy should err on the side of encouraging their use. I further think that reactive, feel-good measures like banning straws and demonizing sunscreen do much more harm than good, because they cause fatigue and apathy about environmental issues and do little to solve them.

arcticbull 4y ago
This article has come up before and might interest you. [1] tl;dr: exposure to sunlight without sunscreen has benefits for cardiovascular health - and the kinds of cancer you get from direct exposure to sunlight on a regular basis (basal cell and squamous cell carcinomas) are almost never fatal. The benefits to CV health significantly outweigh the increased risk of these carcinomas. Melanomas only account for 1-3% of skin cancers and are less likely in outdoor workers and tanned people than they are in indoor workers. > “The risk factor for melanoma appears to be intermittent sunshine and sunburn, especially when you’re young,” says Weller. “But there’s evidence that long-term sun exposure associates with less melanoma.” Makes sense, humans probably wouldn't have made it this far without going outside. [1] https://www.outsideonline.com/health/wellness/sunscreen-sun-exposure-skin-cancer-science/ https://www.outsideonline.com/health/wellness/sunscreen-sun-...
- bearmode 4y ago
  Without sunscreen I burn in just a few minutes and have painful skin for the next few days. I'm okay thanks, I'll keep using it.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - ajb 4y ago
    Resistance to sunburn increases exponentially with regular exposure, and without it falls back to your genetic base level. That's not hyperbole, UV treatment in medical facilities have to start with seconds of treatment which is increased by a percentage each time until you get to effective levels. That's not to recommend that you try doing that yourself, just a weird fact I learned. its hard to calibrate sun exposure. But theoretically starting from very sensitive skin isn't a barrier.
    - refurb 4y ago
      And UV damage is cumulative as well. Even if you ignore melanoma, there are several non-cancerous or pre-cancerous skin conditions from sun exposure. If you go to Asia where most women avoid any sun exposure at all (up to wearing masks and gloves) you’ll note there skin looks amazing even into their 50’s. And the few minutes of exposure you get each day is usually enough to provide vitamin D. I think it’s like 12 min of upper body exposure in moderately intense sunlight is enough.

sgtnoodle 4y ago

There are mineral sunscreens on the market better than paint. I've had good success with 30spf Australian Gold.

Sargos 4y ago

It's possible but locals and I imagine most tourists actually buy sunscreen in Hawaii and it's only legal to sell reef safe sunscreen there. https://www.hawaii-guide.com/blog/hawaii-new-reef-safe-sunscreen-law https://www.hawaii-guide.com/blog/hawaii-new-reef-safe-sunsc...

btgeekboy 4y ago
As a tourist, I buy it there. That way I know it's reef-safe without having to look at ingredients, and the few dollars spent vs. carrying a bottle through an airport is well worth it. Many of the dive boats and hotels will offer sunscreen out of a bulk pump, so depending on what you do on the islands, you probably don't need much on your own - just a small tube for your group will do.
samatman 4y ago
You're not technically allowed to bring the other stuff onto the islands, though in my experience they don't check, I flew into Maui from Japan one time and brought sunscreen (as you might imagine the ingredients are better across the board, including for reefs) and this wasn't checked at the agriculture scanner. Point is, the regulations to keep those ingredients out of the reefs have been mostly successful.

aboodman 4y ago

A lot of locals just aren't out long enough to worry about it. When you live here you step out for an hour to hang out or get in the water. You're not there all day. Not sure if those were the people you were observing. There are also reef-safe sunscreens that rub in much more clear.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

Arnt 4y ago

I use zinc oxide. Brands vary, some suck IMO. The one I use doesn't show, provided that it's rubbed in really quickly, certainly within less than ten seconds. My wife prefers another brand, which also has the same time limit. This means: Put a largish drop on a fingertip and rub it in, then repeat, and repeat, and repeat. If you squeeze out enough that you need to keep it in the hand instead of on a finger, it's going to show.

mlang79 4y ago

hparadiz 4y ago

Wow what is with this comment and everyone lapping it up. I lived on Maui for a year. They sell reef safe sun screen in every store on the island. We didn't get sun burnt because A) you get used to it and B) because we had reef safe sunscreen that was good enough. But way to pat yourself on the back for no reason. Also a lot of people on Maui actually live there and aren't even tourists.

runnerup 4y ago

There are now "transparent zinc oxide" sunscreens as well. See Dermstore[0] for EltaMD brand products. They grind the zinc oxide to much smaller particle sizes and it still blocks UV but doesnt reflect visible light nearly as much (like 99% reduction in white color). I love it a lot. Zinc Oxide is great for being a true "sunblock" (rather than merely "sunscreen") of broad-spectrum UV (instead of just UVA or just UVB/UVC). Also doesn't interact with endocrine system like many of the chemical sunscreens. https://www.dermstore.com/eltamd-uv-clear-broad-spectrum-spf46/11370303.html https://www.dermstore.com/eltamd-uv-clear-broad-spectrum-spf...