5 ms·

> We're close to having the tech necessary to make the tailgating safe. A critical mass of cooperating auto pilot software should do it. Technically you are al

> We're close to having the tech necessary to make the tailgating safe. A critical mass of cooperating auto pilot software should do it. Technically you are already there. All train and metro carriages already do this. :)

dopidopHN 4y ago
Thanks for sanity
nomel 4y ago
This is an extremely small fraction of traffic (edit: in large countries like America), and only works if you're all going to the same place. Being able to zip onto the freeway, then insert/connect/merge into the "road train", perhaps with charging, could be amazing.
- rzzzt 4y ago
  Even without a physical connection, a "virtual trailer hitch" would be easier to implement (I imagine, hah) than a general autopilot. The control loop would have to reference the next vehicle in the chain, and adjust the speed to maintain a constant distance from it, as well as keep the centerlines of the two vehicles aligned. For emergency braking and other surprise situations a broadcast system would be useful.
- DoingIsLearning 4y ago
  > This is an extremely small fraction of traffic Public transit was made into a small fraction of traffic. [0] It absolutely doesn't have to be that way. If you live in a city you are likely going somewhere that a lot of other people are going to as well. With proper urban planning a door to door car should only really make sense in a rural environment. And that is absolutely a needed mindshift to curb GHG emissions. I made a deliberate choice of moving to a country and city with good governance and planning. I haven't owned a car in 5 years. When I do absolutely need a car I will just rent one for a weekend trip or for hauling big things. It still is a huge saving. The only pro-car argument I can think of is the prepper aspect of having a getaway vehicle in the event of a natural disaster. [0] https://www.vox.com/2015/5/7/8562007/streetcar-history-demise https://www.vox.com/2015/5/7/8562007/streetcar-history-demis...
  - nomel 4y ago
    > Public transit was made into a small fraction of traffic. I think "was made" is the key term, since that is what defines the current state of reality, which is where our solutions must exist. Any feasible solution will not requiring destroying the last 100 years of development, in the US. Improvements are still a good thing, especially if they can be implemented as a glorified, cooperative, cruise control. I'm all for rail, since more trams could mean my 20 minute drive wouldn't have to be 3 hours by track + bus + 3 mile walk, but putting enough metal on the ground isn't trivial [1]. 1. https://www.vox.com/videos/2022/7/29/23283654/california-high-speed-rail-palmdale-warning https://www.vox.com/videos/2022/7/29/23283654/california-hig...
    - nicoburns 4y ago
      Worth noting that Europe went a long towards being car centric during the 20th century, and has since revered course. Of course, it was never as car centric as the US is, but it absolutely can be done.
      - nomel 4y ago
        > but it absolutely can be done. Could you explain how this could be approached, with the wide sprawl of suburbs that exists, today?
        DoingIsLearning 4y ago
        "Park&Ride" hubs. Rather than having everyone commuting through the same routes and bottlenecking the same roads on rush hour you could drive/cycle/walk to your local suburb hub and catch a train/tram/metro to where you need to go. There is nothing ground breaking or sci-fi about it. It has been done many times over in several places around the world both dense and sparse. It just needs political will and budget. The main problem you guys have in the US is how entreched lobbyists are.
- crote 4y ago
  In The Netherlands, cars drove a total of 100 billion kilometers in 2019. For comparison, a total of 30 billion passenger-kilometers were made on public transit during the same year. Granted, that's counting vehicle-kilometers and not person-kilometers for cars, but calling it an "extremely small fraction" is not quite accurate. ;-)
  - nomel 4y ago
    Sorry, I was speaking from an American mind. Here, 45% don't have access to public transit. Around 5% use it daily or weekly [1]. Statistics are much better in dense cities. 1. https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/us-public-transit-has-struggled-retain-riders-over-past-half-century-reversing-trend-could-advance-equity-and-sustainability https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/us-public-transit-has-strug...
- pornel 4y ago
  Rolling resistance of vehicles with rubber tires is an order of magnitude worse than steel wheels of a train. Steel wheels are the key reason why trains are so efficient.
  - nomel 4y ago
    Since it's not feasible to lay track everywhere, and since this could be implemented in software, it could be an achievable, relatively cheap, and possibly near term, improvement. "Long range" road trains could include some hardware. This isn't some new idea [1], so I'm not sure why I'm being downvoted. This has always been a goal for self driving. 1. https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1076588_sartre-self-driving-road-train-takes-to-public-roads-video https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1076588_sartre-self-driv...
    - pornel 4y ago
      The track isn't an inconvenience to be removed, track is the major source of the efficiency. Rubber-wheeled train cosplay would not achieve the same levels of efficiency.
- adrianN 4y ago
  In Berlin the majority of commutes are on public transport, even though the public transport system is far from perfect.

dopidopHN 4y ago

Thanks for sanity

nomel 4y ago

This is an extremely small fraction of traffic (edit: in large countries like America), and only works if you're all going to the same place. Being able to zip onto the freeway, then insert/connect/merge into the "road train", perhaps with charging, could be amazing.

rzzzt 4y ago
Even without a physical connection, a "virtual trailer hitch" would be easier to implement (I imagine, hah) than a general autopilot. The control loop would have to reference the next vehicle in the chain, and adjust the speed to maintain a constant distance from it, as well as keep the centerlines of the two vehicles aligned. For emergency braking and other surprise situations a broadcast system would be useful.
DoingIsLearning 4y ago
> This is an extremely small fraction of traffic Public transit was made into a small fraction of traffic. [0] It absolutely doesn't have to be that way. If you live in a city you are likely going somewhere that a lot of other people are going to as well. With proper urban planning a door to door car should only really make sense in a rural environment. And that is absolutely a needed mindshift to curb GHG emissions. I made a deliberate choice of moving to a country and city with good governance and planning. I haven't owned a car in 5 years. When I do absolutely need a car I will just rent one for a weekend trip or for hauling big things. It still is a huge saving. The only pro-car argument I can think of is the prepper aspect of having a getaway vehicle in the event of a natural disaster. [0] https://www.vox.com/2015/5/7/8562007/streetcar-history-demise https://www.vox.com/2015/5/7/8562007/streetcar-history-demis...
- nomel 4y ago
  > Public transit was made into a small fraction of traffic. I think "was made" is the key term, since that is what defines the current state of reality, which is where our solutions must exist. Any feasible solution will not requiring destroying the last 100 years of development, in the US. Improvements are still a good thing, especially if they can be implemented as a glorified, cooperative, cruise control. I'm all for rail, since more trams could mean my 20 minute drive wouldn't have to be 3 hours by track + bus + 3 mile walk, but putting enough metal on the ground isn't trivial [1]. 1. https://www.vox.com/videos/2022/7/29/23283654/california-high-speed-rail-palmdale-warning https://www.vox.com/videos/2022/7/29/23283654/california-hig...
  - nicoburns 4y ago
    Worth noting that Europe went a long towards being car centric during the 20th century, and has since revered course. Of course, it was never as car centric as the US is, but it absolutely can be done.
    - nomel 4y ago
      > but it absolutely can be done. Could you explain how this could be approached, with the wide sprawl of suburbs that exists, today?
      - DoingIsLearning 4y ago
        "Park&Ride" hubs. Rather than having everyone commuting through the same routes and bottlenecking the same roads on rush hour you could drive/cycle/walk to your local suburb hub and catch a train/tram/metro to where you need to go. There is nothing ground breaking or sci-fi about it. It has been done many times over in several places around the world both dense and sparse. It just needs political will and budget. The main problem you guys have in the US is how entreched lobbyists are.
crote 4y ago
In The Netherlands, cars drove a total of 100 billion kilometers in 2019. For comparison, a total of 30 billion passenger-kilometers were made on public transit during the same year. Granted, that's counting vehicle-kilometers and not person-kilometers for cars, but calling it an "extremely small fraction" is not quite accurate. ;-)
- nomel 4y ago
  Sorry, I was speaking from an American mind. Here, 45% don't have access to public transit. Around 5% use it daily or weekly [1]. Statistics are much better in dense cities. 1. https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/us-public-transit-has-struggled-retain-riders-over-past-half-century-reversing-trend-could-advance-equity-and-sustainability https://www.urban.org/urban-wire/us-public-transit-has-strug...
pornel 4y ago
Rolling resistance of vehicles with rubber tires is an order of magnitude worse than steel wheels of a train. Steel wheels are the key reason why trains are so efficient.
- nomel 4y ago
  Since it's not feasible to lay track everywhere, and since this could be implemented in software, it could be an achievable, relatively cheap, and possibly near term, improvement. "Long range" road trains could include some hardware. This isn't some new idea [1], so I'm not sure why I'm being downvoted. This has always been a goal for self driving. 1. https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1076588_sartre-self-driving-road-train-takes-to-public-roads-video https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1076588_sartre-self-driv...
  - pornel 4y ago
    The track isn't an inconvenience to be removed, track is the major source of the efficiency. Rubber-wheeled train cosplay would not achieve the same levels of efficiency.
adrianN 4y ago
In Berlin the majority of commutes are on public transport, even though the public transport system is far from perfect.