4 ms·

I don't get it. Are lobbyists in control of congress? Aren't politicians the ones who pass bills? Or not pass bills in this case.

xordon 4y ago
> Are lobbyists in control of congress? Effectively, Yes. > Who passes bills? Technically the elected officials, but the bills themselves are usually written by lobbyists. Pressure from campaign donors, either directly or through lobbyists, or through "party" channels influence votes.
- atlasunshrugged 4y ago
  I think usually is a stretch but some bills certainly are written by lobbyists (or think tanks/do tanks)
  - thayne 4y ago
    Even if they aren't written by Lobbyists I'd be surprised if most bills weren't influenced at least a little by at least one lobbyist group.
    - atlasunshrugged 4y ago
      Hmm, probably depends on what you define as a lobbyist. If you're writing a bill about education reform and including more tech in the classroom (just a hypothetical example) and ask the teacher's union, Brookings, and a major education company about what would be important to include or not include, would that be influenced by a lobbyist group?
- rdevsrex 4y ago
  Yet another reason I wish the US were a real democracy. For all the good that checks and balances do, let's not forget that the founders were trying to entrench the power of their class.
  - themaninthedark 4y ago
    Yes because having a Twitter mob rule the US would be such a great improvement../s I know there were issues that precipitated the direct election of Senators but I think we would be better if we went back to State Senate control of the Senate, that would force people to focus more on their state and local politics where they have more power rather than ignoring them and shouting how the US Senate is doing nothing.
- gormandizer 4y ago
  "Congress should wear jackets like NASCAR drivers so we can know who bought them." https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/north_america/americas-current-economy/congress-should-proudly-display-who-owns-them/ https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/north_...
ortusdux 4y ago
The real issue is that the tax industry is a large employer. There are about 80k full time tax preparers in the US, and several times that are hired seasonally. H&R block alone hires about 80k for Jan->April. The lobbyists only have to go into senator's offices and say "We created 14,000 jobs in your district, and this bill puts those in jeopardy". Our tax payment system is, in part, a taxpayer funded private jobs creation program.
- pclmulqdq 4y ago
  The US tax code is longer than the C++ standard if you count only the laws that are active today. If you add on the rulings in IRS tribunals, clarifying papers, and other publications, the US tax code is something like 100,000 pages. It is easy to see a profession being established around learning to read that sort of thing. The solution to the tax prep industry isn't to have the IRS do your taxes for you, it's to reduce the size of the tax code.
  - oblio 4y ago
    It's both.
  - CrendKing 4y ago
    With how US govt uses tax (instead of other adhoc channels) to interact with citizens, let's be honest, reducing the size of the tax code is the least likely event to happen. It would require a complete change of paradigm in how the govt works to make it happen.
    - pclmulqdq 4y ago
      Nobody is incentivized to reduce the number of laws on the books, but I would vote for any politician whose position was "I will only repeal laws." The US government is obsessed with giving narrowly-targeted groups of people money through the most obtuse mechanism possible, and it is ridiculous. If you were just sent a check when you bought an EV (for example), a lot of the tax stuff would be much simpler.
amenghra 4y ago
Reminds me this joke: “Taught my kids about democracy tonight by letting them vote on which movie to rent and what pizza to takeaway. I then picked the movie and pizza cos I’m the one with the money.”
StanislavPetrov 4y ago
>Are lobbyists in control of congress? Yes, lobbyists and intelligence agencies.
sidewndr46 4y ago
Congressional members commonly have no idea what is in the legislation they propose. Nancy Pelosi is on the record saying as much: https://posey.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=176009 https://posey.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=...

xordon 4y ago

> Are lobbyists in control of congress? Effectively, Yes. > Who passes bills? Technically the elected officials, but the bills themselves are usually written by lobbyists. Pressure from campaign donors, either directly or through lobbyists, or through "party" channels influence votes.

atlasunshrugged 4y ago
I think usually is a stretch but some bills certainly are written by lobbyists (or think tanks/do tanks)
- thayne 4y ago
  Even if they aren't written by Lobbyists I'd be surprised if most bills weren't influenced at least a little by at least one lobbyist group.
  - atlasunshrugged 4y ago
    Hmm, probably depends on what you define as a lobbyist. If you're writing a bill about education reform and including more tech in the classroom (just a hypothetical example) and ask the teacher's union, Brookings, and a major education company about what would be important to include or not include, would that be influenced by a lobbyist group?
rdevsrex 4y ago
Yet another reason I wish the US were a real democracy. For all the good that checks and balances do, let's not forget that the founders were trying to entrench the power of their class.
- themaninthedark 4y ago
  Yes because having a Twitter mob rule the US would be such a great improvement../s I know there were issues that precipitated the direct election of Senators but I think we would be better if we went back to State Senate control of the Senate, that would force people to focus more on their state and local politics where they have more power rather than ignoring them and shouting how the US Senate is doing nothing.
gormandizer 4y ago
"Congress should wear jackets like NASCAR drivers so we can know who bought them." https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/north_america/americas-current-economy/congress-should-proudly-display-who-owns-them/ https://www.armstrongeconomics.com/international-news/north_...

ortusdux 4y ago

The real issue is that the tax industry is a large employer. There are about 80k full time tax preparers in the US, and several times that are hired seasonally. H&R block alone hires about 80k for Jan->April. The lobbyists only have to go into senator's offices and say "We created 14,000 jobs in your district, and this bill puts those in jeopardy". Our tax payment system is, in part, a taxpayer funded private jobs creation program.

pclmulqdq 4y ago
The US tax code is longer than the C++ standard if you count only the laws that are active today. If you add on the rulings in IRS tribunals, clarifying papers, and other publications, the US tax code is something like 100,000 pages. It is easy to see a profession being established around learning to read that sort of thing. The solution to the tax prep industry isn't to have the IRS do your taxes for you, it's to reduce the size of the tax code.
- oblio 4y ago
  It's both.
- CrendKing 4y ago
  With how US govt uses tax (instead of other adhoc channels) to interact with citizens, let's be honest, reducing the size of the tax code is the least likely event to happen. It would require a complete change of paradigm in how the govt works to make it happen.
  - pclmulqdq 4y ago
    Nobody is incentivized to reduce the number of laws on the books, but I would vote for any politician whose position was "I will only repeal laws." The US government is obsessed with giving narrowly-targeted groups of people money through the most obtuse mechanism possible, and it is ridiculous. If you were just sent a check when you bought an EV (for example), a lot of the tax stuff would be much simpler.

amenghra 4y ago

Reminds me this joke: “Taught my kids about democracy tonight by letting them vote on which movie to rent and what pizza to takeaway. I then picked the movie and pizza cos I’m the one with the money.”

StanislavPetrov 4y ago

>Are lobbyists in control of congress? Yes, lobbyists and intelligence agencies.

sidewndr46 4y ago

Congressional members commonly have no idea what is in the legislation they propose. Nancy Pelosi is on the record saying as much: https://posey.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=176009 https://posey.house.gov/news/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=...