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> And that’s it—there’s simply very little data on how well the Myers-Briggs (and other type-based personality tests) measures personality and even less on how

> And that’s it—there’s simply very little data on how well the Myers-Briggs (and other type-based personality tests) measures personality and even less on how it might predict job performance. I was surprised there wasn't any mention of a very interesting issue here, i.e. MBTI and other typological instruments come with user manuals, training, etc., and those materials specifically say "do not use this for hiring". This is true even in marketing materials...Here's an example directly from the Myers-Briggs Company website: https://www.themyersbriggs.com/en-us/company/press/press/2021/june/assessments-in-hiring https://www.themyersbriggs.com/en-us/company/press/press/202... Even as a personal growth tool the instrument itself is kinda meh, but the soft science behind it is pretty fascinating... And if you are concerned your employer is going to misuse your MBTI type somehow, 1) know your type first, ideally before they do 2) learn the associated relational blind spots and decide how you'll work around them 3) call yourself a "reformed XXXX" because basically the deeper theory is that any given personality type is similar to an illness in a lot of ways. Oh and 4) this may not be a very good workplace, good luck out there.

IncRnd 4y ago
Is that really what you would do when a prospective employer asks such a question? I'd never ask about this, the number of bumps on someone's head, or if the candidate still beats their spouse. However, the best response would be a candidate who would laugh and say, "I think you know enough of my capabilities and personality from this interview process, already"
- themodelplumber 4y ago
  If they just ask you to spit it out during an interview? I'd move on to the next interview unless desperate. I wouldn't presume about what they know about me, I'd just say, look, my understanding is that personality type factors are not considered appropriate as hiring criteria, and so it wouldn't feel right to answer that. I know some would give the type that they feel best matches the position, which, I guess they are also desperate for a job in that case. Unfortunately from what I've seen some hiring teams will give a questionnaire to fill out and a) it's not labeled as any specific type of questionnaire, plus b) you don't get to know your results. One sales company administered a combined IQ test and personality instrument this way. Pretty cringe. They had no certification or corporate permission or anything, just a copy paste test done attitude. Otherwise there's also the post-hire event in which a trainer offers insights, among which is some personality type sorting and theory, and even one on one coaching. Some of this kind of thing is absolutely worth it depending on the situation. For example you've identified someone you want to work more closely with in future projects, so you want to learn how they see themselves and their contribution. So it's best to feel it out, see if you can find a good way to respond to the specific circumstances at work without raising the stakes for yourself. Or basically broadcasting your personal relational blind spots as part of a complaint-driven process. :-)
  - IncRnd 4y ago
    I get what you're saying. I do. It's true that interviews aren't always easy to maneuver, but the interview process of today reflects the manager, teammates, and workplace of tomorrow.
    - themodelplumber 4y ago
      So, are you saying that a sucky interview process at one place today predicts the general practices of the same workplace in the future? Or all workplaces? The first case seems kinda rational if not without exceptions; the second kind of less rational. The first line about getting what I'm saying is typically used to telegraph disagreement beyond the point of consideration, which kind of weirdly raises the stakes for you, rhetorically. Humor is better, or feel free to tell me to pound sand because you are about to drop a truth bomb.
      - ornornor 4y ago
        I think parent meant the interview reflects how the job will be, not that it reflects how every other job will be.
      - deleted 4y ago
        [deleted]
JohnFen 4y ago
> if you are concerned your employer is going to misuse your MBTI type somehow A potential employer will never know what my MBTI type is, so they can't misuse it.
- themodelplumber 4y ago
  That depends. For example I was trained and tested to meet with a person and determine not only their MBTI type, but also their preferred cognitive processes, without ever talking about personality type with them. The testing was extremely difficult. But the skill is extremely valuable in knowing which questions to ask people as they try to navigate career and life change. You might be surprised to find how easy it is to make a very good guess, after all there are 16 types and this usually narrows down to 3-4 common applicant types given the job and field. If you know how to differentiate between those types, or have friends who are of those types, it's going to be hard not to make a close guess. If you want to take on the global MBTI cabal it's important to learn the game IMO. The obvious weaknesses will become your friend rather than a point of defense to get intense about. Less MBTI-sucks and more MBTI-meh. It's also available in other disciplines, e.g. I once took a course on how to determine personality characteristics from texts and emails. Some obvious stuff, but also some really fascinating ideas in there.
  - mistrial9 4y ago
    physical health conditions, context of the meeting, significant recent events and naturally, drug use, can all skew these kinds of interview classification.. not to mention motive on your part.. lots of good reasons to discard this kind of human classification as psuedo-science IMHO
    - themodelplumber 4y ago
      Who is trying to use it as a science? That wasn't mentioned anywhere. Of course there are millions of factors. Usually the interesting ones call for follow-up thinking or discussion, not outright classification...
    - 4y ago
analog31 4y ago
Given that beliefs about personality types are so widespread, it shouldn't be too hard to guess which traits have positive and negative connotations, and learn to project the positive ones. This is not radically different than just making an effort to get along with people.
- themodelplumber 4y ago
  Context is king though. Traits or expressions have different good/bad connotations according to different types/type-informed contexts, that's the basic idea of how type works, how wars are started, etc. Personality type theory shines exactly in those kinds of situations, where it works better to zoom in and look at group composition, isolating for specific perspectives and integrations, rather than zooming out to broader abstractions about humans or people in general. It very often turns out that people have radically different ideas of what it means to get along, and who that should be done with, and when. Advising people to "make an effort to get along" can be extremely offensive when all parties have nearly exhausted their known resources for doing so.
  - analog31 4y ago
    I'm assuming that folk beliefs about personality typing are more widespread than actual constructive uses for it, so that if I ever encounter the latter, I can deal with it as an exception.
Aeolun 4y ago
I just come out and say it? There’s nothing wrong with knowing you are a certain type. At least it’s helpful for me to point at the ‘challenges’ section and tell people ‘I do this, please keep poking me until I give you attention’. In the same way it’s helpful to have a literal definition of how other people think, because the idea that someone might deliberately go with a suboptimal idea because they value peace is absolutely foreign to me.
- SOLAR_FIELDS 4y ago
  Recently in startups I’ve been a part of it’s become a bit of a fad to have a short write up called “how I work” which is basically a treatise consisting of that person telling everyone else how they interact with the world. I’ve found it refreshing, actually.
  - sdoering 4y ago
    I only ever saw one of those being posted to hn quite some time ago. I must admit, that I found this specific example quite disturbing. The implied undertone was that all others should accommodate the author and change themselves to better interact with the author so that his needs were met and he could be a productive member of the work force. But what does that imply the other way around? If I were to write a play book like this, were this person to also adapt to my ways/wants? Or would this be too much to ask? Working in any professional environment to me implies adapting to others around at least a bit (without loosing what makes out our personality). Out of respect to other human beings alone I think this is decent human behavior. But as said, to me these writings sound like excuses to expect one sided adaption and I could say "pampering". But maybe that is just me.
    - iam-TJ 4y ago
      I think it may be you feeling overly cynical. I was using this style of enquiry with new hires 20+ years ago as a natural step to ensure we would get the best out of them - it just seemed like an obvious thing to do. I don't like sticking square pegs in round holes so if by understanding, and being able to accommodate, personal characteristics, we can make the person more comfortable they'll generally contribute more, faster, and better. You hate travelling in rush-hour? fine, set your own hours to fit in with the team requirements. E.g. for myself I'd say: "No distractions - if I'm obviously focused on something do NOT disturb me - send an email" and "I'm productive when my brain gets intensely into something - when it doesn't I don't sit around I go do something else" and "I work better in darkness or dim light, or overnight" and "Sometimes I need to do intense random brain-storming sessions to clear the crap out my head".
mellavora 4y ago
> basically the deeper theory is that any given personality type is similar to an illness in a lot of ways. Yet oddly enough just about everyone has at least one MB type.
- StevePerkins 4y ago
  Well, yes. The religious right embraces the doctrine of "original sin". The secular left focuses on the concept of "unconscious bias". It seems to be part of the human condition across all cultures and ideologies to view people as inherently flawed, and to see the path toward sanctification as being recognition and never ending struggle against those inherent flaws. Myers-Briggs is just the LinkedIn counterpart to this. Fodder for "Tell me about your strengths and weaknesses, and a situation in which you've had to overcome the latter" interview questions. You're supposed to don your hairshirt, beat your breast, and talk about your struggle for salvation in order to demonstrate piety to the interviewer.

IncRnd 4y ago

Is that really what you would do when a prospective employer asks such a question? I'd never ask about this, the number of bumps on someone's head, or if the candidate still beats their spouse. However, the best response would be a candidate who would laugh and say, "I think you know enough of my capabilities and personality from this interview process, already"

themodelplumber 4y ago
If they just ask you to spit it out during an interview? I'd move on to the next interview unless desperate. I wouldn't presume about what they know about me, I'd just say, look, my understanding is that personality type factors are not considered appropriate as hiring criteria, and so it wouldn't feel right to answer that. I know some would give the type that they feel best matches the position, which, I guess they are also desperate for a job in that case. Unfortunately from what I've seen some hiring teams will give a questionnaire to fill out and a) it's not labeled as any specific type of questionnaire, plus b) you don't get to know your results. One sales company administered a combined IQ test and personality instrument this way. Pretty cringe. They had no certification or corporate permission or anything, just a copy paste test done attitude. Otherwise there's also the post-hire event in which a trainer offers insights, among which is some personality type sorting and theory, and even one on one coaching. Some of this kind of thing is absolutely worth it depending on the situation. For example you've identified someone you want to work more closely with in future projects, so you want to learn how they see themselves and their contribution. So it's best to feel it out, see if you can find a good way to respond to the specific circumstances at work without raising the stakes for yourself. Or basically broadcasting your personal relational blind spots as part of a complaint-driven process. :-)
- IncRnd 4y ago
  I get what you're saying. I do. It's true that interviews aren't always easy to maneuver, but the interview process of today reflects the manager, teammates, and workplace of tomorrow.
  - themodelplumber 4y ago
    So, are you saying that a sucky interview process at one place today predicts the general practices of the same workplace in the future? Or all workplaces? The first case seems kinda rational if not without exceptions; the second kind of less rational. The first line about getting what I'm saying is typically used to telegraph disagreement beyond the point of consideration, which kind of weirdly raises the stakes for you, rhetorically. Humor is better, or feel free to tell me to pound sand because you are about to drop a truth bomb.
    - ornornor 4y ago
      I think parent meant the interview reflects how the job will be, not that it reflects how every other job will be.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]

JohnFen 4y ago

> if you are concerned your employer is going to misuse your MBTI type somehow A potential employer will never know what my MBTI type is, so they can't misuse it.

themodelplumber 4y ago
That depends. For example I was trained and tested to meet with a person and determine not only their MBTI type, but also their preferred cognitive processes, without ever talking about personality type with them. The testing was extremely difficult. But the skill is extremely valuable in knowing which questions to ask people as they try to navigate career and life change. You might be surprised to find how easy it is to make a very good guess, after all there are 16 types and this usually narrows down to 3-4 common applicant types given the job and field. If you know how to differentiate between those types, or have friends who are of those types, it's going to be hard not to make a close guess. If you want to take on the global MBTI cabal it's important to learn the game IMO. The obvious weaknesses will become your friend rather than a point of defense to get intense about. Less MBTI-sucks and more MBTI-meh. It's also available in other disciplines, e.g. I once took a course on how to determine personality characteristics from texts and emails. Some obvious stuff, but also some really fascinating ideas in there.
- mistrial9 4y ago
  physical health conditions, context of the meeting, significant recent events and naturally, drug use, can all skew these kinds of interview classification.. not to mention motive on your part.. lots of good reasons to discard this kind of human classification as psuedo-science IMHO
  - themodelplumber 4y ago
    Who is trying to use it as a science? That wasn't mentioned anywhere. Of course there are millions of factors. Usually the interesting ones call for follow-up thinking or discussion, not outright classification...
  - 4y ago

analog31 4y ago

Given that beliefs about personality types are so widespread, it shouldn't be too hard to guess which traits have positive and negative connotations, and learn to project the positive ones. This is not radically different than just making an effort to get along with people.

themodelplumber 4y ago
Context is king though. Traits or expressions have different good/bad connotations according to different types/type-informed contexts, that's the basic idea of how type works, how wars are started, etc. Personality type theory shines exactly in those kinds of situations, where it works better to zoom in and look at group composition, isolating for specific perspectives and integrations, rather than zooming out to broader abstractions about humans or people in general. It very often turns out that people have radically different ideas of what it means to get along, and who that should be done with, and when. Advising people to "make an effort to get along" can be extremely offensive when all parties have nearly exhausted their known resources for doing so.
- analog31 4y ago
  I'm assuming that folk beliefs about personality typing are more widespread than actual constructive uses for it, so that if I ever encounter the latter, I can deal with it as an exception.

Aeolun 4y ago

I just come out and say it? There’s nothing wrong with knowing you are a certain type. At least it’s helpful for me to point at the ‘challenges’ section and tell people ‘I do this, please keep poking me until I give you attention’. In the same way it’s helpful to have a literal definition of how other people think, because the idea that someone might deliberately go with a suboptimal idea because they value peace is absolutely foreign to me.

SOLAR_FIELDS 4y ago
Recently in startups I’ve been a part of it’s become a bit of a fad to have a short write up called “how I work” which is basically a treatise consisting of that person telling everyone else how they interact with the world. I’ve found it refreshing, actually.
- sdoering 4y ago
  I only ever saw one of those being posted to hn quite some time ago. I must admit, that I found this specific example quite disturbing. The implied undertone was that all others should accommodate the author and change themselves to better interact with the author so that his needs were met and he could be a productive member of the work force. But what does that imply the other way around? If I were to write a play book like this, were this person to also adapt to my ways/wants? Or would this be too much to ask? Working in any professional environment to me implies adapting to others around at least a bit (without loosing what makes out our personality). Out of respect to other human beings alone I think this is decent human behavior. But as said, to me these writings sound like excuses to expect one sided adaption and I could say "pampering". But maybe that is just me.
  - iam-TJ 4y ago
    I think it may be you feeling overly cynical. I was using this style of enquiry with new hires 20+ years ago as a natural step to ensure we would get the best out of them - it just seemed like an obvious thing to do. I don't like sticking square pegs in round holes so if by understanding, and being able to accommodate, personal characteristics, we can make the person more comfortable they'll generally contribute more, faster, and better. You hate travelling in rush-hour? fine, set your own hours to fit in with the team requirements. E.g. for myself I'd say: "No distractions - if I'm obviously focused on something do NOT disturb me - send an email" and "I'm productive when my brain gets intensely into something - when it doesn't I don't sit around I go do something else" and "I work better in darkness or dim light, or overnight" and "Sometimes I need to do intense random brain-storming sessions to clear the crap out my head".

mellavora 4y ago

> basically the deeper theory is that any given personality type is similar to an illness in a lot of ways. Yet oddly enough just about everyone has at least one MB type.

StevePerkins 4y ago
Well, yes. The religious right embraces the doctrine of "original sin". The secular left focuses on the concept of "unconscious bias". It seems to be part of the human condition across all cultures and ideologies to view people as inherently flawed, and to see the path toward sanctification as being recognition and never ending struggle against those inherent flaws. Myers-Briggs is just the LinkedIn counterpart to this. Fodder for "Tell me about your strengths and weaknesses, and a situation in which you've had to overcome the latter" interview questions. You're supposed to don your hairshirt, beat your breast, and talk about your struggle for salvation in order to demonstrate piety to the interviewer.