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What I am the most excited about is the dive computer feature! "along with recreational scuba diving to 40 meters with the new Oceanic+ app." I was looking at

What I am the most excited about is the dive computer feature! "along with recreational scuba diving to 40 meters with the new Oceanic+ app." I was looking at $1,000 Garmin watches and was really not excited at buying one.

liminalsunset 4y ago
I'm more concerned about the safety aspects of using an app running on a consumer watch for this kind of purpose. We've all seen the "water resistance is not a permanent condition...limited warranty does not cover water damage" warning before. Can a user of this app easily determine whether the waterproofing of the watch has been compromised, perhaps invisibly? After all, most Apple products rely on double sided adhesives and thin rubber membranes for waterproofing, due to sensors etc, but most other watches use a O-ring seal or similar. What happens if the App crashes, or the watch experiences a freeze/reboot during a dive? Will the app relaunch and handle its state correctly? Will the battery aging impact ability to prevent unexpected restarts in cold water? My past experiences with mobile apps and devices has been that while in the vast majority of situations they work fine, due to the large feature surface area and constraints associated with being a general purpose device, there are caveats to using them for a fixed purpose, where preventing failure could be critical. This is usually why purpose made equipment like dive computers are bulky and expensive, and I'm not sure this is the answer.
- dmitrygr 4y ago
  My dive computer (mares) is also a consumer device. Why would Apple Watch be worse ?
  - liminalsunset 4y ago
    I'm thinking this isn't exactly an apples to apples comparison (literally) because the Mares equipment is designed specifically for the purpose of diving. The design of that device can be optimized for diving, and just diving, where an Apple Watch needs to include features like phone calls, a speaker, a microphone, and other sensors that aren't necessary for diving, along with the other software and user installed apps. Furthermore, the physical size and case design of the products I see on the Mares website is bulkier, which likely makes it easy to build it to be more robust to physical damage and waterproofing.
- maratc 4y ago
  I have a Suunto Spyder which I bought around 2003. It was the first dive computer that was small enough to be worn as a daily driver. The thing about Spyder is that I need to replace its battery every two-three years, but otherwise it still does exactly what it did in 2003. The thing about AWU is that it will long be a deadweight brick, while my Spyder will just keep on going. That's what bothers me about Apple-made dive computers.
underbluewaters 4y ago
Already preordered and am looking forward to using it for freediving. The UX on dive watches has long been a nightmare, they are expensive, and the replaceable batteries open them up to waterproofing issues. Most computers also treat freediving/spearfishing as an afterthought so I'll probably create my own software for it. Maybe a business opportunity here...
- nradov 4y ago
  The freediving UX on the Garmin Descent Mk2 series seems fine to me. Have you tried it? The battery is rechargable and lasts a long time so there's no need to replace it.
- secabeen 4y ago
  Interesting. Shearwater is the dominant player in both dive computers and freediving watches. They don't meet your needs?
  - SOLAR_FIELDS 4y ago
    As someone who just threw down $500 USD on a Peregrine, I’m curious about this as well. I think there is a real market for this kind of thing, as evidenced by Garmin’s presence with their high end watches and the Teric. I felt like when I paid for the Peregrine I was mostly paying for the screen though - which it still remains to be seen how well this device will perform in that category. I could definitely see myself using the Apple as a primary and the Peregrine as a secondary in 5 years or so as they iterate and make improvements - Shearwater has long been the king of this space but they don’t have the R&D money Apple does.
  - underbluewaters 4y ago
    I'm mostly experienced with < $500 dive computers, which maybe isn't a fair comparison, but now I have the choice between the expensive apple watch or a single-purpose expensive dive computer. With the Ultra I can also buy or build different software if the UX isn't working for my needs.
Pandamonster 4y ago
The only catch is the scuba diving (aka dive computer) feature relies solely on 3rd party app. It happens that Oceanic+ to be the first one and the first one that will requires a subscription. I ordered and cancelled the order right after I read the fine lines of the 3rd party and subscription requirement of the app. I guess I would go back to a better, dedicated dive computer at this price point then.

liminalsunset 4y ago

I'm more concerned about the safety aspects of using an app running on a consumer watch for this kind of purpose. We've all seen the "water resistance is not a permanent condition...limited warranty does not cover water damage" warning before. Can a user of this app easily determine whether the waterproofing of the watch has been compromised, perhaps invisibly? After all, most Apple products rely on double sided adhesives and thin rubber membranes for waterproofing, due to sensors etc, but most other watches use a O-ring seal or similar. What happens if the App crashes, or the watch experiences a freeze/reboot during a dive? Will the app relaunch and handle its state correctly? Will the battery aging impact ability to prevent unexpected restarts in cold water? My past experiences with mobile apps and devices has been that while in the vast majority of situations they work fine, due to the large feature surface area and constraints associated with being a general purpose device, there are caveats to using them for a fixed purpose, where preventing failure could be critical. This is usually why purpose made equipment like dive computers are bulky and expensive, and I'm not sure this is the answer.

dmitrygr 4y ago
My dive computer (mares) is also a consumer device. Why would Apple Watch be worse ?
- liminalsunset 4y ago
  I'm thinking this isn't exactly an apples to apples comparison (literally) because the Mares equipment is designed specifically for the purpose of diving. The design of that device can be optimized for diving, and just diving, where an Apple Watch needs to include features like phone calls, a speaker, a microphone, and other sensors that aren't necessary for diving, along with the other software and user installed apps. Furthermore, the physical size and case design of the products I see on the Mares website is bulkier, which likely makes it easy to build it to be more robust to physical damage and waterproofing.
maratc 4y ago
I have a Suunto Spyder which I bought around 2003. It was the first dive computer that was small enough to be worn as a daily driver. The thing about Spyder is that I need to replace its battery every two-three years, but otherwise it still does exactly what it did in 2003. The thing about AWU is that it will long be a deadweight brick, while my Spyder will just keep on going. That's what bothers me about Apple-made dive computers.

underbluewaters 4y ago

Already preordered and am looking forward to using it for freediving. The UX on dive watches has long been a nightmare, they are expensive, and the replaceable batteries open them up to waterproofing issues. Most computers also treat freediving/spearfishing as an afterthought so I'll probably create my own software for it. Maybe a business opportunity here...

nradov 4y ago
The freediving UX on the Garmin Descent Mk2 series seems fine to me. Have you tried it? The battery is rechargable and lasts a long time so there's no need to replace it.
secabeen 4y ago
Interesting. Shearwater is the dominant player in both dive computers and freediving watches. They don't meet your needs?
- SOLAR_FIELDS 4y ago
  As someone who just threw down $500 USD on a Peregrine, I’m curious about this as well. I think there is a real market for this kind of thing, as evidenced by Garmin’s presence with their high end watches and the Teric. I felt like when I paid for the Peregrine I was mostly paying for the screen though - which it still remains to be seen how well this device will perform in that category. I could definitely see myself using the Apple as a primary and the Peregrine as a secondary in 5 years or so as they iterate and make improvements - Shearwater has long been the king of this space but they don’t have the R&D money Apple does.
- underbluewaters 4y ago
  I'm mostly experienced with < $500 dive computers, which maybe isn't a fair comparison, but now I have the choice between the expensive apple watch or a single-purpose expensive dive computer. With the Ultra I can also buy or build different software if the UX isn't working for my needs.

Pandamonster 4y ago

The only catch is the scuba diving (aka dive computer) feature relies solely on 3rd party app. It happens that Oceanic+ to be the first one and the first one that will requires a subscription. I ordered and cancelled the order right after I read the fine lines of the 3rd party and subscription requirement of the app. I guess I would go back to a better, dedicated dive computer at this price point then.