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Much of the current failures are due to conservative provincial governments (looking at you, Ontario...) purposely underfunding before and into the pandemic. W
by multiplegeorges 4y ago
Much of the current failures are due to conservative provincial governments (looking at you, Ontario...) purposely underfunding before and into the pandemic.
We are now reaping what they have sown.
This is a classic "underfund to prove the system doesn't work thus we must privatize it!" move.
- antasvara 4y agoHow much do you estimate this is being underfunded, and do you believe proper funding for healthcare would push the percentage of GDP closer to the US number?
- adgjlsfhk1 4y agoYou're assuming the US healthcare system isn't equally underfunded. The US has massive doctors shortages (especially in rural areas), and that's not counting all the care the US just doesn't do because people instead just die since they can't afford to go to the hospital.
- pessimizer 4y ago> You're assuming the US healthcare system isn't equally underfunded. You don't have to assume. It costs twice as much as the most expensive health systems on earth, but delivers Afghanistan-level life expectancies. The problem isn't that we're spending too little.
- KptMarchewa 4y agoAnd yet people skip tons of routine checks because they cost too much.
- vitiral 4y agoI have really no opinion on any of this, but please realize there are more factors than health care on life expectancy.
- adgjlsfhk1 4y agoWhat is a better metric and how does the US do on it?
- vitiral 4y agoI don't know, but almost everything is more complicated than people often make it out to be. Unless you'd like to spend 40+ hours/days/years researching it, you're probably better off trying to be more laid back.
- tptacek 4y agoInfant mortality (but that's also tricky because of differences in reporting between countries), cancer survival rates. Life expectancy is a particularly bad metric to use to compare health care systems, because it's heavily influenced by (1) how much people drive, (2) how much violent crime there is, and (3) how much drug addiction the country has. None of those are health care metrics. I don't believe there's any credible critic of American health care that premises their complaint on America delivering bad health care. We deliver pretty excellent health care, and we deliver it faster than a lot of countries with better health care outcomes. We are in many places in the US overprovisioned for care (by measurements like empty hospital beds, or overprescription of elective procedures). The chief complaint about American health care is how expensive it is, not how good it is. That distinction is especially important because getting costs down may involve confronting the ways American care is better than it needs to be or should be. For instance: we do a lot more elective surgeries than countries with better outcomes, in part because we do them outpatient here, and they're inpatient (a much bigger deal) elsewhere. For example, my understanding is you're much more likely to get a hernia repaired (probably needlessly) here than in the UK.
- kasey_junk 4y agoIf you are going to use life expectancy you should at least not use hyperbole to compare. It would be fair to claim the US spends the most on earth but only gets Polish levels of life expectancy. Afghanistan is a whole decade off that cohort.
- multiplegeorges 4y agoOntario is consistently the lowest spender per capita on health in the country. Ref: https://www.fao-on.org/en/Blog/Publications/interprovincial-comparison-2022 https://www.fao-on.org/en/Blog/Publications/interprovincial-... It's being underfunded by at least 10-15%, which is a lot for a system expected to run as cost effectively as possible. I'm getting that number from the average of $5336 vs ON at $4800. 4800/5336 = ~89% I don't think we should aspire to US levels of GDP share. That seems quite excessive. I think the solutions to our issues are structural changes and adequate funding.
- randomdata 4y agoIt seems a bit strange to call out the Conservatives specifically. Ontario has been purposefully underfunding healthcare for decades upon decades, with most of the damage done decades ago. Peterson (Liberal) forced practitioners to operate under fixed rates defined by the province, which even lead to a doctors strike. Rae (NDP) eliminated 8,000 acute care beds. Harris (PC) eliminated another 6,000 beds. Governments of the last 20 years have held the status quo, which leaves them equally culpable.
- ohgodplsno 4y agoConservatives hate that their money is taken away to fund poor people and take money away from their rich friends, and it brings them to defund healthcare, liberals hate that it creates a natural monopoly and their inability to see a functioning society work without private hospitals brings them to defund healthcare
- robertlagrant 4y agoThere's no point pretending you know what people's motivations are. Conservatives I've read/heard seem to generally want similar outcomes, but disagree drastically on the methods.
- nuclearnice1 4y agoFirst sentence: don’t guess people’s motivations Second sentence: explain people’s motivations
- robertlagrant 4y agoNo, that's a category error. I'm not talking about every conservative. Just the ones I've listened to explain themselves.
- afiori 4y agoI believe that guess and explain are two different verbs
- pydry 4y agoThis is happening in the UK too. The NHS is still wildly popular so it's politically impossible to privatize from the outside in but it's becoming less popular as its effectiveness declines due to expanding mismanagement, underfunding and corruption when awarding contracts. The frog has to be boiled slowly though.