3 ms·

There is an escape from the donkey in practice. Its called a boat, which can scale as big as possible and supply any number of donkeys across the entirety of t

There is an escape from the donkey in practice. Its called a boat, which can scale as big as possible and supply any number of donkeys across the entirety of the Mediterranean.

bee_rider 4y ago
The blog posts by Devereaux (acoup blog) that spurred this on, are specifically about over-land logistics. Boats, of course, avoid this problem entirely -- assuming all of your targets are coastal or by rivers!
mellavora 4y ago
as long as you are near the shore-line, I can see that working. Though you might also need to be near a port; loading/offloading is less efficient without infrastructure. However, there may be other uses for the port, which suggests most of the good ports will have cities built around them. So yes, as long as you constrain your march to the area around friendly cities, boats work great
- tomjen3 4y ago
  You don't really need much infrastructure when you don't use containers for your boats.
- dragontamer 4y ago
  > as long as you are near the shore-line Look at Bronze / early Iron age Mediterranean empires. They stuck to the shorelines. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Carthage#/media/File:Carthage_Holdings.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Carthage#/media/File:C... https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Greek_Colonization_Archaic_Period.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Greek_Co...
  - marcosdumay 4y ago
    They started moving inroad after they started making roads.
thunderbird120 4y ago
In practicality there was also another solution in the ancient world. If you're going conquering you're probably going somewhere with people to conquer. Those people probably have food. Just take theirs.
- throwawayffffas 4y ago
  It's called foraging, it's what practically everyone did. It's a nasty business and you can't do it to the same people twice, because it typically involved killing and enslaving that people. https://acoup.blog/2022/07/29/collections-logistics-how-did-they-do-it-part-ii-foraging/ https://acoup.blog/2022/07/29/collections-logistics-how-did-...
- bombcar 4y ago
  The underlying blog post goes into details on that, too. It is covered in "foraging" https://acoup.blog/2022/08/12/collections-logistics-how-did-they-do-it-part-iii-on-the-move/ https://acoup.blog/2022/08/12/collections-logistics-how-did-...
- toss1 4y ago
  >> "Just take theirs" That "Just" word is carrying a very heavy load . . . (The people whose food you are planning to forage will be objecting, likely with weapons)
  - yetanother4968 4y ago
    More likely they are fleeing since they are largely unarmed peasants, who can’t stand up to trained, armed, and armored soldiers.
    - 988747 4y ago
      And when they flee they take some of their food supplies with them and hide the rest. Foraging army might be able to find some of it, but rarely all. Also, if you are in enemy territory it is entirely possible to completely miss some remote village. It's not like they have a satellite map.

There is an escape from the donkey in practice. Its called a boat, which can scale as big as possible and supply any number of donkeys across the entirety of the Mediterranean.

bee_rider 4y ago

The blog posts by Devereaux (acoup blog) that spurred this on, are specifically about over-land logistics. Boats, of course, avoid this problem entirely -- assuming all of your targets are coastal or by rivers!

mellavora 4y ago

as long as you are near the shore-line, I can see that working. Though you might also need to be near a port; loading/offloading is less efficient without infrastructure. However, there may be other uses for the port, which suggests most of the good ports will have cities built around them. So yes, as long as you constrain your march to the area around friendly cities, boats work great

tomjen3 4y ago
You don't really need much infrastructure when you don't use containers for your boats.
dragontamer 4y ago
> as long as you are near the shore-line Look at Bronze / early Iron age Mediterranean empires. They stuck to the shorelines. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Carthage#/media/File:Carthage_Holdings.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Carthage#/media/File:C... https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Greek_Colonization_Archaic_Period.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f7/Greek_Co...
- marcosdumay 4y ago
  They started moving inroad after they started making roads.

thunderbird120 4y ago

In practicality there was also another solution in the ancient world. If you're going conquering you're probably going somewhere with people to conquer. Those people probably have food. Just take theirs.

throwawayffffas 4y ago
It's called foraging, it's what practically everyone did. It's a nasty business and you can't do it to the same people twice, because it typically involved killing and enslaving that people. https://acoup.blog/2022/07/29/collections-logistics-how-did-they-do-it-part-ii-foraging/ https://acoup.blog/2022/07/29/collections-logistics-how-did-...
bombcar 4y ago
The underlying blog post goes into details on that, too. It is covered in "foraging" https://acoup.blog/2022/08/12/collections-logistics-how-did-they-do-it-part-iii-on-the-move/ https://acoup.blog/2022/08/12/collections-logistics-how-did-...
toss1 4y ago
>> "Just take theirs" That "Just" word is carrying a very heavy load . . . (The people whose food you are planning to forage will be objecting, likely with weapons)
- yetanother4968 4y ago
  More likely they are fleeing since they are largely unarmed peasants, who can’t stand up to trained, armed, and armored soldiers.
  - 988747 4y ago
    And when they flee they take some of their food supplies with them and hide the rest. Foraging army might be able to find some of it, but rarely all. Also, if you are in enemy territory it is entirely possible to completely miss some remote village. It's not like they have a satellite map.