3 ms·

ORM is a very valuable tool and should be aggressively used. One can always step down to SQL as needed but otherwise, the ORM logic is easier to write and main

by AdamN 4y ago

ORM is a very valuable tool and should be aggressively used. One can always step down to SQL as needed but otherwise, the ORM logic is easier to write and maintain.

swasheck 4y ago
the all-or-nothing approach is prevalent in both camps. i’ve worked in places where a straightforward optimization could not be implemented because it would require the developers to break from the orm-only standard they’d set. i’ve also worked places where orm were held as such anathema that any orm proposal was dismissed out of hand without any sort of discussion.
- pc86 4y ago
  As is almost always the case, the middle ground is better. In a few of the larger .NET projects I've worked on we would use EF until it became too much of a pain (or the business rules made the query unmanageable) and then someone would eventually spend a few days transitioning the query into a stored procedure + SQL functions, updating tests, etc. The biggest complaint I ever got from that was that it was impossible to tell what was going to be LINQ and what was going to be a stored procedure. While not an insignificant concern, it certainly beats "oh we can't optimize that 20-second long query because then we'd have to drop below the ORM and 'we don't do that here'" or "no you can't use any ORM even though it objectively eliminates a lot of boilerplate work."
- hk1337 4y ago
  The all-or-nothing approach is what makes people hate ORMs and go anti-ORM.
CuriouslyC 4y ago
ORM logic is not easier to write and maintain unless you're bad at SQL and writing your queries without any tool support.
- bluefirebrand 4y ago
  Strongly agreed. In my experience all using an ORM accomplishes is making sure the people on your team who are amazing with SQL write just as bad queries as those who suck at SQL.

3 ms·

ORM is a very valuable tool and should be aggressively used. One can always step down to SQL as needed but otherwise, the ORM logic is easier to write and main

by AdamN 4y ago

ORM is a very valuable tool and should be aggressively used. One can always step down to SQL as needed but otherwise, the ORM logic is easier to write and maintain.

swasheck 4y ago
the all-or-nothing approach is prevalent in both camps. i’ve worked in places where a straightforward optimization could not be implemented because it would require the developers to break from the orm-only standard they’d set. i’ve also worked places where orm were held as such anathema that any orm proposal was dismissed out of hand without any sort of discussion.
- pc86 4y ago
  As is almost always the case, the middle ground is better. In a few of the larger .NET projects I've worked on we would use EF until it became too much of a pain (or the business rules made the query unmanageable) and then someone would eventually spend a few days transitioning the query into a stored procedure + SQL functions, updating tests, etc. The biggest complaint I ever got from that was that it was impossible to tell what was going to be LINQ and what was going to be a stored procedure. While not an insignificant concern, it certainly beats "oh we can't optimize that 20-second long query because then we'd have to drop below the ORM and 'we don't do that here'" or "no you can't use any ORM even though it objectively eliminates a lot of boilerplate work."
- hk1337 4y ago
  The all-or-nothing approach is what makes people hate ORMs and go anti-ORM.
CuriouslyC 4y ago
ORM logic is not easier to write and maintain unless you're bad at SQL and writing your queries without any tool support.
- bluefirebrand 4y ago
  Strongly agreed. In my experience all using an ORM accomplishes is making sure the people on your team who are amazing with SQL write just as bad queries as those who suck at SQL.