4 ms·

>Given all of above, it is dangerously cavalier to point out one singular cause of deaths only. Occam's razor says your wall of text is just rationalizing bull

>Given all of above, it is dangerously cavalier to point out one singular cause of deaths only. Occam's razor says your wall of text is just rationalizing bullshit.

peteradio 4y ago
Occam's razor is not a dousing rod for the actual truth in complex situations. It's a tool for dismissing wild claims in the face of the very obvious.
- ekianjo 4y ago
  Occams razor is overhyped. It is almost never useful when it comes to complex systems.
ekianjo 4y ago
occams razor is another name for confirmation bias. you dont win an argument with this kind of bullshit.
- trention 4y ago
  Occam's razor is an entirely logical heuristic whereas confirmation bias is not. But it's good that you show so readily you have no grasp of even basic concepts.
andsoitis 4y ago
Notice how they start off by saying something we’d agree with (“We know there is excess mortality.”) and take us on a windy road, ending in conspiracy.
- timr 4y ago
  Sorry, what "conspiracy" is it that you're claiming? Here are the last two sentences of the comment. Both are objectively true: > We know some states, NY & NJ in particular, ordered at-risk populations of eldery to sequester their vulnerable infected, with the vulnerable un-infected, and to continue to accept covid infected referrals from hospitals. This is 100% true [1]. > We know that hospitals and potentially others, have received renumerations based on covid cases, diagnoses, and cause of death that may disproportionately effected ICD coding used by hospital administrators. This is also true. Every hospital in the US gets paid higher medicare rates for Covid patients. Even factcheck.org admits the truth of the statement, despite trying hard to "debunk" it [2]. [1] https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/26/cuomos-nursing-home-fiasco-ethical-perils-pandemic-policymaking/ https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/26/cuomos-nursing-home-fias... [2] https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/ https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-...
  - trention 4y ago
    >what "conspiracy" is it that you're claiming? It's definitely a conspiracy to simultaneously claim that "hospitals" were deliberately misdiagnosing non-covid deaths as covid deaths while doing high mental gymnastics to rationalize while excess deaths exceed covid deaths and the excess comes exactly during the infection waves.
    - deleted 4y ago
      [deleted]
    - OrvalWintermute 4y ago
      > We know that hospitals and potentially others, have received renumerations based on covid cases, diagnoses, and cause of death that may disproportionately effected ICD coding used by hospital administrators. misdiagnosing sounds like your words not mine. Stay on topic. The topic is billing and coding. Hospital administrators are going to pursue whatever is their best billing and coding option. That is logical. Why would they submit for a finger injury that pays $500 when they can get a covid bump-up for $2000?
      - trention 4y ago
        The topic is that you are alleging a conspiracy for something which is exactly backed by the excess death data. For an explanation of which you have to invent a second conspiracy. >Why would they submit for a finger injury that pays $500 when they can get a covid bump-up for $2000? Because if this was routinely done, there will be some sort of proof. Where is the proof? Is there a third conspiracy to suppress it? I am on topic. The topic is the conspiracy nutting around covid which you epitomize.
        OrvalWintermute 4y ago
        You're making a grave mistake, and I am happy to point it out. In the case of an unknown pathogen potential first treatments may prove to be wrong. Likewise, vaccines flawed. And for this there is a great history of flawed vaccines, such as the Polio Vaccine Live Virus debacle [1] the Simian contamination of Polio vaccines [2], or perhaps the Swine flu [3]. How much more so with a novel therapeutic technology that is not well understood, or which there appears to be troubling side effects? A vaccine mandate can make it even worse [4] Much of the destructive influences Covid has had was not because of the virus exclusively, but because of the economic effects from mandated lockdowns [5], and potentially, contributions from mandated vaccines [6] Whether you agree with Covid lockdown economic destruction or not, people are writing about it [7] from many different perspectives [8]. I provide much evidence. Let's hope you can respond with more than an ignoble response lacking any historical merit. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1383764/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1383764/ [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9450713/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9450713/ [3] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/long-shadow-1976-swine-flu-vaccine-fiasco-180961994/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/long-shadow-1976-s... [4] https://www.acsh.org/news/2022/02/08/trouble-vaccine-mandates%E2%80%94they-can-backfire-studies-show-16113 https://www.acsh.org/news/2022/02/08/trouble-vaccine-mandate... [5] https://www.chicagobooth.edu/review/how-much-exactly-have-covid-19-lockdowns-affected-economy https://www.chicagobooth.edu/review/how-much-exactly-have-co... [6] https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/healthcare/hospitals-reconsider-vaccine-mandate-amid-staffing-shortages https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/healthcare/hospita... [7] https://fee.org/articles/study-lockdowns-had-largest-impact-in-destroying-economic-activity/ https://fee.org/articles/study-lockdowns-had-largest-impact-... [8] https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/09/an-economist-explains-what-covid-19-has-done-to-the-global-economy/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/09/an-economist-explains...
OrvalWintermute 4y ago
>Occam's razor says your wall of text is just rationalizing bullshit. Each claim I wrote is well supported by evidence. You just dismissed something out of hand. Sorry, no blanket wave-away is going to cut the mustard here. And, there is no need for profanity. Strangely, the original submission is about "Long-term cardiac pathology in individuals with mild initial Covid-19 illness (nature.com)" which goes right along with the points I have made.

>Given all of above, it is dangerously cavalier to point out one singular cause of deaths only. Occam's razor says your wall of text is just rationalizing bullshit.

peteradio 4y ago

Occam's razor is not a dousing rod for the actual truth in complex situations. It's a tool for dismissing wild claims in the face of the very obvious.

ekianjo 4y ago
Occams razor is overhyped. It is almost never useful when it comes to complex systems.

ekianjo 4y ago

occams razor is another name for confirmation bias. you dont win an argument with this kind of bullshit.

trention 4y ago
Occam's razor is an entirely logical heuristic whereas confirmation bias is not. But it's good that you show so readily you have no grasp of even basic concepts.

andsoitis 4y ago

Notice how they start off by saying something we’d agree with (“We know there is excess mortality.”) and take us on a windy road, ending in conspiracy.

timr 4y ago
Sorry, what "conspiracy" is it that you're claiming? Here are the last two sentences of the comment. Both are objectively true: > We know some states, NY & NJ in particular, ordered at-risk populations of eldery to sequester their vulnerable infected, with the vulnerable un-infected, and to continue to accept covid infected referrals from hospitals. This is 100% true [1]. > We know that hospitals and potentially others, have received renumerations based on covid cases, diagnoses, and cause of death that may disproportionately effected ICD coding used by hospital administrators. This is also true. Every hospital in the US gets paid higher medicare rates for Covid patients. Even factcheck.org admits the truth of the statement, despite trying hard to "debunk" it [2]. [1] https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/26/cuomos-nursing-home-fiasco-ethical-perils-pandemic-policymaking/ https://www.statnews.com/2021/02/26/cuomos-nursing-home-fias... [2] https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-covid-19-death-count/ https://www.factcheck.org/2020/04/hospital-payments-and-the-...
- trention 4y ago
  >what "conspiracy" is it that you're claiming? It's definitely a conspiracy to simultaneously claim that "hospitals" were deliberately misdiagnosing non-covid deaths as covid deaths while doing high mental gymnastics to rationalize while excess deaths exceed covid deaths and the excess comes exactly during the infection waves.
  - deleted 4y ago
    [deleted]
  - OrvalWintermute 4y ago
    > We know that hospitals and potentially others, have received renumerations based on covid cases, diagnoses, and cause of death that may disproportionately effected ICD coding used by hospital administrators. misdiagnosing sounds like your words not mine. Stay on topic. The topic is billing and coding. Hospital administrators are going to pursue whatever is their best billing and coding option. That is logical. Why would they submit for a finger injury that pays $500 when they can get a covid bump-up for $2000?
    - trention 4y ago
      The topic is that you are alleging a conspiracy for something which is exactly backed by the excess death data. For an explanation of which you have to invent a second conspiracy. >Why would they submit for a finger injury that pays $500 when they can get a covid bump-up for $2000? Because if this was routinely done, there will be some sort of proof. Where is the proof? Is there a third conspiracy to suppress it? I am on topic. The topic is the conspiracy nutting around covid which you epitomize.
      - OrvalWintermute 4y ago
        You're making a grave mistake, and I am happy to point it out. In the case of an unknown pathogen potential first treatments may prove to be wrong. Likewise, vaccines flawed. And for this there is a great history of flawed vaccines, such as the Polio Vaccine Live Virus debacle [1] the Simian contamination of Polio vaccines [2], or perhaps the Swine flu [3]. How much more so with a novel therapeutic technology that is not well understood, or which there appears to be troubling side effects? A vaccine mandate can make it even worse [4] Much of the destructive influences Covid has had was not because of the virus exclusively, but because of the economic effects from mandated lockdowns [5], and potentially, contributions from mandated vaccines [6] Whether you agree with Covid lockdown economic destruction or not, people are writing about it [7] from many different perspectives [8]. I provide much evidence. Let's hope you can respond with more than an ignoble response lacking any historical merit. [1] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1383764/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1383764/ [2] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9450713/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/9450713/ [3] https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/long-shadow-1976-swine-flu-vaccine-fiasco-180961994/ https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/long-shadow-1976-s... [4] https://www.acsh.org/news/2022/02/08/trouble-vaccine-mandates%E2%80%94they-can-backfire-studies-show-16113 https://www.acsh.org/news/2022/02/08/trouble-vaccine-mandate... [5] https://www.chicagobooth.edu/review/how-much-exactly-have-covid-19-lockdowns-affected-economy https://www.chicagobooth.edu/review/how-much-exactly-have-co... [6] https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/healthcare/hospitals-reconsider-vaccine-mandate-amid-staffing-shortages https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/healthcare/hospita... [7] https://fee.org/articles/study-lockdowns-had-largest-impact-in-destroying-economic-activity/ https://fee.org/articles/study-lockdowns-had-largest-impact-... [8] https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/09/an-economist-explains-what-covid-19-has-done-to-the-global-economy/ https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2020/09/an-economist-explains...

OrvalWintermute 4y ago

>Occam's razor says your wall of text is just rationalizing bullshit. Each claim I wrote is well supported by evidence. You just dismissed something out of hand. Sorry, no blanket wave-away is going to cut the mustard here. And, there is no need for profanity. Strangely, the original submission is about "Long-term cardiac pathology in individuals with mild initial Covid-19 illness (nature.com)" which goes right along with the points I have made.