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The most obvious solution to high power prices is a negotiated settlement in Ukraine and a lifting of sanctions on Russia - regardless of whether you like that

The most obvious solution to high power prices is a negotiated settlement in Ukraine and a lifting of sanctions on Russia - regardless of whether you like that or not for geopolitical or ideological reasons, that would bring power prices crashing down overnight. The next in line would be central banks and government bonds doing the quantitative easing, aka printing money, and delivering that money not to the private banks, but to the power consumers. This wouldn't lower power prices, however. Based on past actions of central bankers, this is the opposite of what they'd do (i.e. they'd demand IMF-style austerity programs in exchange for funding regional governments). Increasing shipments of fossil fuels to Europe from non-Russian sources as a means of reducing power costs is implausible, as global supplies aren't there - but I do notice that each LNG tanker being sent from the USA to Europe is immensely profitable for the suppliers, so maybe the plan is working out as intended? Fossil fuel profits on Wall Street have hit records lately, even surpassing those of the arms manufacturers supplying the ongoing war in Ukraine. Europe's in a very poor position between the USA and Russia, the former wanting to continue the war indefinitely (and to maintain sanctions) and the latter clearly pushing for a permanent division of Ukraine. Some people saw how all this would play out six months ago, however, here's there Jan 2022 prognosis: https://www.vortexa.com/insights/products/reality-check-on-russian-oil-and-gas-sanctions/ https://www.vortexa.com/insights/products/reality-check-on-r... Outcome: This would rather sanction the importers than Russia, as importers would have to scramble for alternative supplies, while Russia would find alternative buyers elsewhere. Potential hiccups in this rearrangement would put more harm on Europe, with consumers immediately feeling any price increase and delay in supplies...

user432678 4y ago
That solution might be obvious, but it is also obvious that negotiating settlement with terrorists is not a good idea in a long run.
- sampa 4y ago
  current politics 101: name the people you don't agree with terrorists
  - qsort 4y ago
    Current politics 102: Pretend that a genocidal war of aggression waged by a terrorist state and involving several war crimes -- among which mass rape -- amounts to a minor disagreement over policy details.
    - zosima 4y ago
      Politics 101: Claim that your enemy is a genocidal aggressor madman and is devoid of all humanity. Real war 101: All sides commit horrible atrocities. Just stop it.
      - qsort 4y ago
        Ah yes, all sides. Obviously. Is this satire? It doesn't matter that one side is waging aggressive war, doesn't it? It doesn't matter that only one side is murdering civilians and raping women doesn't it? How awfully convenient.
        YarickR2 4y ago
        zosima 4y ago
        This seems naive or even infantile. When USA invaded Iraq, ought we then also to have supported the Iraqi rebels? US soldiers committed some nasty war crimes, didn't they? Ukrainian soldiers have no doubt, committed nasty war crimes too. Modern war is horrible. When your friends are one second standing beside you, the next randomly blown up into a pool of flesh and blood, you can be certain there will be war crimes, because people break in that environment. It's not a Russian or American or Ukrainian thing.
        MagnumOpus 4y ago
        > When USA invaded Iraq, ought we then also to have supported the Iraqi rebels We ought and we did... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_Iraq_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_Iraq_War (Even apart from the fact that you are trying to equate invading Ukraine, a free democracy, with invading Iraq, a bloody dictatorship...)
tauntz 4y ago
> and the latter clearly pushing for a permanent division of Ukraine No, Russia is clearly pushing for the eradication of the Ukrainian nation and, as a longer term goal, the re-establishment of the Soviet Union in one form or the other (this means invading and destroying other countries). > negotiated settlement in Ukraine and a lifting of sanctions on Russia It's so easy to say that as somebody clearly not living in a country in the "sphere of Russian influence", isn't it? Let others die so you could enjoy your cheap energy. Sorry, I can't take this comment in good faith :(
- nathanaldensr 4y ago
  > clearly Source?
  - 314 4y ago
    Speeches and foreign-policy by Putin. Asking for a source is clearly not acting in good faith to pursue a discussion.
- zosima 4y ago
  > No, Russia is clearly pushing for the eradication of the Ukrainian nation and, as a longer term goal, the re-establishment of the Soviet Union in one form or the other (this means invading and destroying other countries). This is pure speculation. And as far as I can tell, Russia, while obviously fighting a deplorable aggressive war, has not occupied territory outside of the fairly old parts of Russia, Novorossiya and Malorossyia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novorossiya https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novorossiya https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Russia Western parts of Ukraine have a quite different history, and is not historically nor population-wise as connected to Russia as the Malorossyia and Novorossiya. Also nobody is dying for cheap energy. You want to stop people dying for dumb reasons, then stop the war and negotiate peace. I don't think the average citizen is going to experience much difference in quality of life, being ruled by a Russian oligarch or an Ukrainian oligarch.
  - pjc50 4y ago
nradov 4y ago
A negotiated "settlement" in Ukraine could only mean allowing Russia to annex the eastern and southern parts of the country. At least for now, until they come back a few years later and take the rest of Ukraine along with Moldova, part of Lithuania, and so on. Negotiating with the Putin regime is utterly pointless.
- zosima 4y ago
  Why? Negotiation and letting Russia keep some of its influence seems to have been one of the few paths which actually haven't been seriously tried. This is a well-argued classic explaining why this war was predictable and avoidable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4 And while that happened, some old well-known american peace-mongers, were running around in Ukraine spreading the peace: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmaakY-PIAc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmaakY-PIAc
  - nradov 4y ago
    You seem to have a short memory. That was tried last time Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. Look where we are now. At the point we have to be realistic. The best path forward is just to grind down the Russian will to fight in an endless war of attrition. Keep killing.
    - zosima 4y ago
      Neither Ukraine (or at least the Azov batallion) nor Russia adhered to the Minsk agreement. There was low-intensity fighting from both sides, going on since 2014. And honestly, in this fight, one of the parties, the main attackers on the Ukrainian side, were actual Nazis. Here is Zelensky while still a comedian cracking a joke about the Nazis on the Ukrainian side: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uToQqIZ_3Go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uToQqIZ_3Go
      - nradov 4y ago
        So what. None of that is relevant to the current situation. No one is under any illusions that the Ukrainians are all angels. But as long as they're willing to do the hard work of killing Russian soldiers, it's best to continue supporting them as that protects the rest of us in the long run.
deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
YarickR2 4y ago
Few more rounds and people in the streets will begin to understand spitting in the face of your primary sustenance supplier is not very smart. Were they thinking stealing (freezing assets and confiscating private property) and sanctioning trade would be taken by Russia as a reward, or what ? Well, choose your friends wisely, choose your enemies wiser yet. Not that the option of refusing Ukraine into NATO was off the table.
314 4y ago
The most obvious solution to high power prices is a negotiated settlement in Ukraine and a lifting of sanctions on Russia - regardless of whether you like that or not for geopolitical or ideological reasons, that would bring power prices crashing down overnight. This would be a "solution" only in the short-term, as those geopolitical and ideological reasons include not giving Russia a strategic stranglehold over European politics via its control of the energy markets. Giving Russia the ability to control energy prices (via supply restrictions) is not a medium- or long-term solution to the problem. edit: formatting

user432678 4y ago

That solution might be obvious, but it is also obvious that negotiating settlement with terrorists is not a good idea in a long run.

sampa 4y ago
current politics 101: name the people you don't agree with terrorists
- qsort 4y ago
  Current politics 102: Pretend that a genocidal war of aggression waged by a terrorist state and involving several war crimes -- among which mass rape -- amounts to a minor disagreement over policy details.
  - zosima 4y ago
    Politics 101: Claim that your enemy is a genocidal aggressor madman and is devoid of all humanity. Real war 101: All sides commit horrible atrocities. Just stop it.
    - qsort 4y ago
      Ah yes, all sides. Obviously. Is this satire? It doesn't matter that one side is waging aggressive war, doesn't it? It doesn't matter that only one side is murdering civilians and raping women doesn't it? How awfully convenient.
      - YarickR2 4y ago
      - zosima 4y ago
        This seems naive or even infantile. When USA invaded Iraq, ought we then also to have supported the Iraqi rebels? US soldiers committed some nasty war crimes, didn't they? Ukrainian soldiers have no doubt, committed nasty war crimes too. Modern war is horrible. When your friends are one second standing beside you, the next randomly blown up into a pool of flesh and blood, you can be certain there will be war crimes, because people break in that environment. It's not a Russian or American or Ukrainian thing.
        MagnumOpus 4y ago
        > When USA invaded Iraq, ought we then also to have supported the Iraqi rebels We ought and we did... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_Iraq_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protests_against_the_Iraq_War (Even apart from the fact that you are trying to equate invading Ukraine, a free democracy, with invading Iraq, a bloody dictatorship...)

tauntz 4y ago

> and the latter clearly pushing for a permanent division of Ukraine No, Russia is clearly pushing for the eradication of the Ukrainian nation and, as a longer term goal, the re-establishment of the Soviet Union in one form or the other (this means invading and destroying other countries). > negotiated settlement in Ukraine and a lifting of sanctions on Russia It's so easy to say that as somebody clearly not living in a country in the "sphere of Russian influence", isn't it? Let others die so you could enjoy your cheap energy. Sorry, I can't take this comment in good faith :(

nathanaldensr 4y ago
> clearly Source?
- 314 4y ago
  Speeches and foreign-policy by Putin. Asking for a source is clearly not acting in good faith to pursue a discussion.
zosima 4y ago
> No, Russia is clearly pushing for the eradication of the Ukrainian nation and, as a longer term goal, the re-establishment of the Soviet Union in one form or the other (this means invading and destroying other countries). This is pure speculation. And as far as I can tell, Russia, while obviously fighting a deplorable aggressive war, has not occupied territory outside of the fairly old parts of Russia, Novorossiya and Malorossyia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novorossiya https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novorossiya https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Russia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Russia Western parts of Ukraine have a quite different history, and is not historically nor population-wise as connected to Russia as the Malorossyia and Novorossiya. Also nobody is dying for cheap energy. You want to stop people dying for dumb reasons, then stop the war and negotiate peace. I don't think the average citizen is going to experience much difference in quality of life, being ruled by a Russian oligarch or an Ukrainian oligarch.
- pjc50 4y ago

nradov 4y ago

A negotiated "settlement" in Ukraine could only mean allowing Russia to annex the eastern and southern parts of the country. At least for now, until they come back a few years later and take the rest of Ukraine along with Moldova, part of Lithuania, and so on. Negotiating with the Putin regime is utterly pointless.

zosima 4y ago
Why? Negotiation and letting Russia keep some of its influence seems to have been one of the few paths which actually haven't been seriously tried. This is a well-argued classic explaining why this war was predictable and avoidable: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4 And while that happened, some old well-known american peace-mongers, were running around in Ukraine spreading the peace: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmaakY-PIAc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmaakY-PIAc
- nradov 4y ago
  You seem to have a short memory. That was tried last time Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014. Look where we are now. At the point we have to be realistic. The best path forward is just to grind down the Russian will to fight in an endless war of attrition. Keep killing.
  - zosima 4y ago
    Neither Ukraine (or at least the Azov batallion) nor Russia adhered to the Minsk agreement. There was low-intensity fighting from both sides, going on since 2014. And honestly, in this fight, one of the parties, the main attackers on the Ukrainian side, were actual Nazis. Here is Zelensky while still a comedian cracking a joke about the Nazis on the Ukrainian side: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uToQqIZ_3Go https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uToQqIZ_3Go
    - nradov 4y ago
      So what. None of that is relevant to the current situation. No one is under any illusions that the Ukrainians are all angels. But as long as they're willing to do the hard work of killing Russian soldiers, it's best to continue supporting them as that protects the rest of us in the long run.

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

YarickR2 4y ago

Few more rounds and people in the streets will begin to understand spitting in the face of your primary sustenance supplier is not very smart. Were they thinking stealing (freezing assets and confiscating private property) and sanctioning trade would be taken by Russia as a reward, or what ? Well, choose your friends wisely, choose your enemies wiser yet. Not that the option of refusing Ukraine into NATO was off the table.

314 4y ago