7 ms·

Further, try to abide by their requests. If they want the trash can by the door to your office or cubicle on Thursday evening, move the damn trashcan to the doo

Further, try to abide by their requests. If they want the trash can by the door to your office or cubicle on Thursday evening, move the damn trashcan to the door. They have 100 to empty; it's a trivial task for you. We can get wound up in ourselves and forget to hold a door, or avoid spilling crumbs on our carpet, or log out of our workstation, or use a different hallway when the floor is being waxed, or to move the trash can. It's not really a reflection on our self-importance. It's just a character flaw.

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]
grammarnazzzi 4y ago
> Further, try to abide by their requests. If they want the trash can by the door to your office or cubicle on Thursday evening, move the damn trashcan to the door. Better yet, take your damn trashcan out to the damn dumpster your own damn self. Then we can save some damn money and fire the damn janitor. > They have 100 to empty; it's a trivial task for you. It's a trivial part of their job. They're getting paid for it.
- didericis 4y ago
  It’s trivial to correct code formatting. You’re getting paid to code, presumably. What’s the better world: one in which your colleagues make a trivial effort to install a linter and make their code nicely formatted before handing it off, or one in which they don’t bother, say it’s trivial and part of your job for you to correct it, and then threaten to fire you?
  - chillwaves 4y ago
    It's disheartening how antisocial well paid coders seem to be. I mean that in the most literal way.
- lhorie 4y ago
  In Japanese schools, the kids are the ones doing the cleaning. Not just taking out the trash, but cleaning the blackboards, mopping the floor, tidying up the desks, cleaning the bathrooms, etc. The reasoning isn't to save money, however. It is precisely to teach them there's no such thing as work that is beneath them.
  - Gigachad 4y ago
    Probably makes them respect the space more when they are responsible for keeping it clean.
    - alliao 4y ago
      my granddad who was educated by Japanese says the crappiest stuff that made you clean like you meant it; don't read on if you don't want to be obsessed with cleaning stuff. on how to leaving any space... Even a bird will leave their nest in a tidy manner. on how to clean... treat the object you want to clean like it's your soul And man oh man did I wiped those mirrors...
      - ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
        > Even a bird will leave their nest in a tidy manner. I love the Japanese ethos of Community (but don't always find myself in agreement with some of the other aphorisms, like "The nail that sticks up gets hammered down."). However, the person responsible for that gem has obviously never looked into a hawk's nest.
  - bigDinosaur 4y ago
    The idea of replicating this in a modern office is quite the amusing image. It strikes me as both true and false: - no job is truly beneath me, and sometimes I have to wade into the weeds so better be prepared - it's also a way to just get essentially free or cheap(er) labour by increasing the duties of those whose time would be better spent elsewhere.
    - 4y ago
- bee_rider 4y ago
  I don't mind taking out the trash but I think we'll need to have a janitor on staff because at least a few (figurative) bad apples will neglect to take theirs out, and they'll throw away (literal) apples, which will go bad, and then we'll get flies.
  - JoeAltmaier 4y ago
    Straw man? The example was moving the can near the door so the janitor could efficiently collect them, without for instance entering your office and perhaps upsetting cables, equipment etc. Let's quit jumping to strawmen about doing the janitors job, shall we? It's just about being respectful of the guy in the job next to you.
    - bee_rider 4y ago
      The comment I was responding to suggested that people take out their own garbage and fire the janitor, that was the thought I was responding to. Perhaps that is the comment you meant to respond to? I'm not sure if it is a strawman. They seem to be suggesting that going too farther in the direction of helping the janitor would remove the need for the janitor. To the extent that it is a strawman, I think they've even failed to beat up on their strawman, for the reason that I point out -- the janitor would still be necessary.
- FoomFries 4y ago
  Trivialities in logistics and their impact on you as a person are two different things. If I added 500ms of latency to a keyboard (ssh, a bunch of VPNs, etc) I imagine a janitor would say ‘it’s a trivial part of your job, you’re getting paid for it.’ Yet that would cause many developers to pull their hair out.
  - Shared404 4y ago
    That's an extraordinarly good analogy, which I was not able to come up with myself despite thinking about it for a couple minutes. Thanks! Source: Am currently doing server admin/code work, have done food service and janitorial in the past.
  - laserlight 4y ago
    Make the latency random for more fun.
  - Dylan16807 4y ago
    Latency on everything is rather different. If you made my deploys go from 30 seconds to 35, I don't think I'd care very much.
- denkmoon 4y ago
  Life is nicer when you spend it being nice.
saurik 4y ago
I do get being nice to janitors--and I am happy to help them with something if asked, and I don't "ignore" them as noted in this article as I definitely agree that's rude to treat them as second-class humans unworthy of being regarded with eye contact or banter--but I am being paid to do my job and they are being paid to their job and if I am spending my time or mental energy doing part of their job then I feel like something in the division of labor has failed. No one wants me spending my time working on the website or managing the social media account, and while every department certainly has something I could add to my task list to make their job easier--such as going out of my way to maintain a high-level changelog of the product or maintain a list of new translation syringe--it is their job to let me do my job, and we hired the people to do the extra work of going back through the work I did and finding those things I didn't write down at the time so I could maximize the time I spend on new development or architecture or debugging or cutting server costs or whatever it is that I was hired to do. I also think there is something to the people who argue that if you go out of your way to put away carts or use self-checkout "to help the people who work there" without realizing that you are REPLACING the people who work there--as, due to your efforts, the company can hire fewer people to do whatever that job is--then you are not actually their friend. While I avoid getting crumbs on the carpet because it is likely to attract ants or cause other forms of permanent damage to the room in the form of ground-in debris or stains, it just isn't clear to me that the most "janitor friendly" action--in the long run--wouldn't be to actively create as large of a mess as I can without people deciding I am myself such a liability that I lose my own job (and one could imagine actually conspiring with the janitorial staff over creating such elaborate "but understandable" messes ;P). Certainly, if we merely move all the trash cans to where they are most quickly gathered, the company would be almost negligent to not assign the janitor some new task to fill the time that was saved (or reduce their hours, or scale down the department, etc.).
- chillwaves 4y ago
  It's like 10 seconds of your time.
  - xmprt 4y ago
    It takes even less time if they were already planning on walking from the trashcan to a central location anyway.
quickthrower2 4y ago
What is this “door” you speak of in the office? The agile police would surely have that removed pronto.
renewiltord 4y ago
I never did any of this stuff but got along with them all. Theyplayed with my Oculus Quest, we'd shoot the shit sometimes, shared some of their bomb ass guacamole. Everyone's got their mode of interacting with people. I'm really not into this shaming people for not matching your interaction mode thing. This sanctimonious ostentatious virtuosity is really too much. To make it worse this is truly junk content. God help me.
lupire 4y ago
It's hard for me to imagine a place where a janitor would dare make such a request. Usually service star are dreadfully afraid of getting abused by the (relatively) powerful problem all around them who can easily ruin their jobs and therefore lives by spite or just accident .

deleted 4y ago

[deleted]

grammarnazzzi 4y ago

> Further, try to abide by their requests. If they want the trash can by the door to your office or cubicle on Thursday evening, move the damn trashcan to the door. Better yet, take your damn trashcan out to the damn dumpster your own damn self. Then we can save some damn money and fire the damn janitor. > They have 100 to empty; it's a trivial task for you. It's a trivial part of their job. They're getting paid for it.

didericis 4y ago
It’s trivial to correct code formatting. You’re getting paid to code, presumably. What’s the better world: one in which your colleagues make a trivial effort to install a linter and make their code nicely formatted before handing it off, or one in which they don’t bother, say it’s trivial and part of your job for you to correct it, and then threaten to fire you?
- chillwaves 4y ago
  It's disheartening how antisocial well paid coders seem to be. I mean that in the most literal way.
lhorie 4y ago
In Japanese schools, the kids are the ones doing the cleaning. Not just taking out the trash, but cleaning the blackboards, mopping the floor, tidying up the desks, cleaning the bathrooms, etc. The reasoning isn't to save money, however. It is precisely to teach them there's no such thing as work that is beneath them.
- Gigachad 4y ago
  Probably makes them respect the space more when they are responsible for keeping it clean.
  - alliao 4y ago
    my granddad who was educated by Japanese says the crappiest stuff that made you clean like you meant it; don't read on if you don't want to be obsessed with cleaning stuff. on how to leaving any space... Even a bird will leave their nest in a tidy manner. on how to clean... treat the object you want to clean like it's your soul And man oh man did I wiped those mirrors...
    - ChrisMarshallNY 4y ago
      > Even a bird will leave their nest in a tidy manner. I love the Japanese ethos of Community (but don't always find myself in agreement with some of the other aphorisms, like "The nail that sticks up gets hammered down."). However, the person responsible for that gem has obviously never looked into a hawk's nest.
- bigDinosaur 4y ago
  The idea of replicating this in a modern office is quite the amusing image. It strikes me as both true and false: - no job is truly beneath me, and sometimes I have to wade into the weeds so better be prepared - it's also a way to just get essentially free or cheap(er) labour by increasing the duties of those whose time would be better spent elsewhere.
  - 4y ago
bee_rider 4y ago
I don't mind taking out the trash but I think we'll need to have a janitor on staff because at least a few (figurative) bad apples will neglect to take theirs out, and they'll throw away (literal) apples, which will go bad, and then we'll get flies.
- JoeAltmaier 4y ago
  Straw man? The example was moving the can near the door so the janitor could efficiently collect them, without for instance entering your office and perhaps upsetting cables, equipment etc. Let's quit jumping to strawmen about doing the janitors job, shall we? It's just about being respectful of the guy in the job next to you.
  - bee_rider 4y ago
    The comment I was responding to suggested that people take out their own garbage and fire the janitor, that was the thought I was responding to. Perhaps that is the comment you meant to respond to? I'm not sure if it is a strawman. They seem to be suggesting that going too farther in the direction of helping the janitor would remove the need for the janitor. To the extent that it is a strawman, I think they've even failed to beat up on their strawman, for the reason that I point out -- the janitor would still be necessary.
FoomFries 4y ago
Trivialities in logistics and their impact on you as a person are two different things. If I added 500ms of latency to a keyboard (ssh, a bunch of VPNs, etc) I imagine a janitor would say ‘it’s a trivial part of your job, you’re getting paid for it.’ Yet that would cause many developers to pull their hair out.
- Shared404 4y ago
  That's an extraordinarly good analogy, which I was not able to come up with myself despite thinking about it for a couple minutes. Thanks! Source: Am currently doing server admin/code work, have done food service and janitorial in the past.
- laserlight 4y ago
  Make the latency random for more fun.
- Dylan16807 4y ago
  Latency on everything is rather different. If you made my deploys go from 30 seconds to 35, I don't think I'd care very much.
denkmoon 4y ago
Life is nicer when you spend it being nice.

saurik 4y ago

I do get being nice to janitors--and I am happy to help them with something if asked, and I don't "ignore" them as noted in this article as I definitely agree that's rude to treat them as second-class humans unworthy of being regarded with eye contact or banter--but I am being paid to do my job and they are being paid to their job and if I am spending my time or mental energy doing part of their job then I feel like something in the division of labor has failed. No one wants me spending my time working on the website or managing the social media account, and while every department certainly has something I could add to my task list to make their job easier--such as going out of my way to maintain a high-level changelog of the product or maintain a list of new translation syringe--it is their job to let me do my job, and we hired the people to do the extra work of going back through the work I did and finding those things I didn't write down at the time so I could maximize the time I spend on new development or architecture or debugging or cutting server costs or whatever it is that I was hired to do. I also think there is something to the people who argue that if you go out of your way to put away carts or use self-checkout "to help the people who work there" without realizing that you are REPLACING the people who work there--as, due to your efforts, the company can hire fewer people to do whatever that job is--then you are not actually their friend. While I avoid getting crumbs on the carpet because it is likely to attract ants or cause other forms of permanent damage to the room in the form of ground-in debris or stains, it just isn't clear to me that the most "janitor friendly" action--in the long run--wouldn't be to actively create as large of a mess as I can without people deciding I am myself such a liability that I lose my own job (and one could imagine actually conspiring with the janitorial staff over creating such elaborate "but understandable" messes ;P). Certainly, if we merely move all the trash cans to where they are most quickly gathered, the company would be almost negligent to not assign the janitor some new task to fill the time that was saved (or reduce their hours, or scale down the department, etc.).

chillwaves 4y ago
It's like 10 seconds of your time.
- xmprt 4y ago
  It takes even less time if they were already planning on walking from the trashcan to a central location anyway.

quickthrower2 4y ago

What is this “door” you speak of in the office? The agile police would surely have that removed pronto.

renewiltord 4y ago

I never did any of this stuff but got along with them all. Theyplayed with my Oculus Quest, we'd shoot the shit sometimes, shared some of their bomb ass guacamole. Everyone's got their mode of interacting with people. I'm really not into this shaming people for not matching your interaction mode thing. This sanctimonious ostentatious virtuosity is really too much. To make it worse this is truly junk content. God help me.

lupire 4y ago

It's hard for me to imagine a place where a janitor would dare make such a request. Usually service star are dreadfully afraid of getting abused by the (relatively) powerful problem all around them who can easily ruin their jobs and therefore lives by spite or just accident .