7 ms·

What mob is participating in this DDoS attack? Maybe vigilante justice is a more appropriate term.

stale2002 4y ago
Well, seeing as this thread is about a website losing their DDoS protection, it would be whichever criminal mob that the DDoS protection was defending against.
- kelseyfrog 4y ago
  This is just the marketplace of ideas in action. If KF wants to succeed, they can just have better ideas.
  - stale2002 4y ago
    It's actually illegal to DDoS websites. Generally speaking, the best way to handle situations like that is to get the police to put someone in a cage.
  - concordDance 4y ago
    Might (in DDOS power) makes right is pretty far from a free market.
    - cauefcr 4y ago
      Same for the asymmetry of anonymous KF users vs a random LGBT person, so what's the point?
      - stale2002 4y ago
        The "point" is that anyone engaging in illegal violence, or similar, anywhere, should be punished via the legal system, and not via some other forms of illegal violence. And that goes to anyone involved in any part of this whole fight.
        kelseyfrog 4y ago
        It's just packets and packets are speech. Just like the packets used to post this embody free speech
        stale2002 4y ago
        Actually, DDoSing website is a crime, that police will throw you in a cage for doing so.
        concordDance 4y ago
        "Free speech" is a bit of a misnomer. The valuable thing is the freedom to hear, not the freedom to speak. With a DDOS the goal is to prevent people from reading someone's words. With harassment the goal is to prevent people hearing the targets future words. Both are forms of censorship.
        kelseyfrog 4y ago
        Sounds like we're actually on the same page. I am ddos, hear me roar!
        orwin 4y ago
        And what if the legal system do not protect (or punish) all equally? There was no physical not psychological violence here. Only Ddos. Why is that bad? Do you have an inherent right to not be buried under request? protected from bots?
        stale2002 4y ago
        > Do you have an inherent right to not be buried under request? Well, we have a lot of laws against that in every major country. Yes, if police catch you doing that, then they will put you in a cage.
  - cowtools 4y ago
    This is not a case of "good ideas" vs "better ideas", this is a case of DDoS: "inconvenient ideas and IP Bandwidth" vs "censorship and better IP bandwidth"
    - kelseyfrog 4y ago
      It's pretty contingent on ideas though. You don't see thecheesecakefactory.com getting blasted for exactly this reason.
      - cowtools 4y ago
        The cheesecake factory has no meaningful ideological motivations, unless you include the advancement of poor dieting amongst Americans, which I suppose could be considered to be anti-american in a sense. Additionally, it's a retail store. I can't imagine they would lose a lot of business if their website was down. Still, they could just as easily fall victim to a DDoS racketeering scheme I suppose. If somehow someone objected to cheesecake factory's practices (let's say they're a vegan or they disapproved of cheesecake factory's health practices or something), then it would be disproportionately easy for the cheesecake factory to conduct a DDoS attack on the protester's website than vice-versa. So the idea that we should support DDoS as some form of free speech is obviously pro-corporatist in my perspective, because it empowers those with more financial and bureaucratic control over the internet.
      - fluoridation 4y ago
        So let's see, if I don't like this comment of yours and I find out where you live and go and shoot you in the face so you can't make such comments again, that's also competition in the marketplace of ideas, right? It's my idea to shoot you in the face against your idea of making comments I don't like.
        kelseyfrog 4y ago
        You're equating a website going offline to shooting me in the face? No, that's not a competition of ideas. It's murder. Does that really need to be spelled out for you?
tsimionescu 4y ago
Well, by definition almost a Distributed DoS attack implies some kind of mob. Now, it could conceivably be some rich individual illegally paying money to an illegal botnet, but it could also very well be a larger group of people conspiring to illegally pool their money to buy time on an illegal botnet. It could also theoretically be a large group of people illegally conspiring to attack the site directly using their own machines.

stale2002 4y ago

Well, seeing as this thread is about a website losing their DDoS protection, it would be whichever criminal mob that the DDoS protection was defending against.

kelseyfrog 4y ago
This is just the marketplace of ideas in action. If KF wants to succeed, they can just have better ideas.
- stale2002 4y ago
  It's actually illegal to DDoS websites. Generally speaking, the best way to handle situations like that is to get the police to put someone in a cage.
- concordDance 4y ago
  Might (in DDOS power) makes right is pretty far from a free market.
  - cauefcr 4y ago
    Same for the asymmetry of anonymous KF users vs a random LGBT person, so what's the point?
    - stale2002 4y ago
      The "point" is that anyone engaging in illegal violence, or similar, anywhere, should be punished via the legal system, and not via some other forms of illegal violence. And that goes to anyone involved in any part of this whole fight.
      - kelseyfrog 4y ago
        It's just packets and packets are speech. Just like the packets used to post this embody free speech
        stale2002 4y ago
        Actually, DDoSing website is a crime, that police will throw you in a cage for doing so.
        concordDance 4y ago
        "Free speech" is a bit of a misnomer. The valuable thing is the freedom to hear, not the freedom to speak. With a DDOS the goal is to prevent people from reading someone's words. With harassment the goal is to prevent people hearing the targets future words. Both are forms of censorship.
        kelseyfrog 4y ago
        Sounds like we're actually on the same page. I am ddos, hear me roar!
      - orwin 4y ago
        And what if the legal system do not protect (or punish) all equally? There was no physical not psychological violence here. Only Ddos. Why is that bad? Do you have an inherent right to not be buried under request? protected from bots?
        stale2002 4y ago
        > Do you have an inherent right to not be buried under request? Well, we have a lot of laws against that in every major country. Yes, if police catch you doing that, then they will put you in a cage.
- cowtools 4y ago
  This is not a case of "good ideas" vs "better ideas", this is a case of DDoS: "inconvenient ideas and IP Bandwidth" vs "censorship and better IP bandwidth"
  - kelseyfrog 4y ago
    It's pretty contingent on ideas though. You don't see thecheesecakefactory.com getting blasted for exactly this reason.
    - cowtools 4y ago
      The cheesecake factory has no meaningful ideological motivations, unless you include the advancement of poor dieting amongst Americans, which I suppose could be considered to be anti-american in a sense. Additionally, it's a retail store. I can't imagine they would lose a lot of business if their website was down. Still, they could just as easily fall victim to a DDoS racketeering scheme I suppose. If somehow someone objected to cheesecake factory's practices (let's say they're a vegan or they disapproved of cheesecake factory's health practices or something), then it would be disproportionately easy for the cheesecake factory to conduct a DDoS attack on the protester's website than vice-versa. So the idea that we should support DDoS as some form of free speech is obviously pro-corporatist in my perspective, because it empowers those with more financial and bureaucratic control over the internet.
    - fluoridation 4y ago
      So let's see, if I don't like this comment of yours and I find out where you live and go and shoot you in the face so you can't make such comments again, that's also competition in the marketplace of ideas, right? It's my idea to shoot you in the face against your idea of making comments I don't like.
      - kelseyfrog 4y ago
        You're equating a website going offline to shooting me in the face? No, that's not a competition of ideas. It's murder. Does that really need to be spelled out for you?

tsimionescu 4y ago

Well, by definition almost a Distributed DoS attack implies some kind of mob. Now, it could conceivably be some rich individual illegally paying money to an illegal botnet, but it could also very well be a larger group of people conspiring to illegally pool their money to buy time on an illegal botnet. It could also theoretically be a large group of people illegally conspiring to attack the site directly using their own machines.