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I have owned a Tesla, and I leased my wife a Bolt a while back. She's convinced, I'm convinced, but with the lease coming to an end next year we probably will

I have owned a Tesla, and I leased my wife a Bolt a while back. She's convinced, I'm convinced, but with the lease coming to an end next year we probably will not replace the Bolt with another EV. Why? Prices. I was ready to buy a Mach E, but then Ford raised the price something like 6 grand while simultaneously losing the $7500 tax credit. That effectively bumps the price of the car into a territory I don't think makes a good value. So instead we're putting ourselves on the waiting list for a RAV4 Prime. We'll still reap most of the benefits of plugging in, but the price is much more palatable for what you get.

anonporridge 4y ago
I've seen Rav4 Primes selling for $20k over the $50k premium MSRP. They're not in a better place than regular EVs.
- mechanical_bear 4y ago
  Except you can get them for MSRP at many dealers, for example: Sunnyvale Toyota.
- driverdan 4y ago
  Listed or selling? Plenty of dealers are trying to get well over MSRP but only an idiot would pay that much for a RAV4 Prime.
crooked-v 4y ago
I suspect you might have been misinformed, as the Mach-E is actually one of the few current vehicles[1] that will be able to keep the $7500 tax credit for the rest of the year, before the new rules around sourcing requirements and income limits kick in on Jan 1st. [1]: https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/federal-ev-tax-credits-end-for-most-evs-plug-in-hybrids/ https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/federal-ev-tax-credits-en...
- deleted 4y ago
  [deleted]
01100011 4y ago
My Bolt is coming to the end of the lease soon. We're dropping back to a single ICE vehicle because we don't drive that much. I considered: - keep the Bolt and buy it for $24k + tax. Car is barely worth that and the subsidized chargers I've been using at work are starting to fill up, causing hassles. Current CA grid insufficiency is also not encouraging. - get a new BEV or PHEV. I don't drive enough to make either of these make economic sense. I can pick up a newer, pre-owned ICE vehicle and save a ton over non-ICE and never spend anywhere close to the difference on gas. EV drivetrains are fun and I love them but I can't justify the luxury at this point.
Animats 4y ago
This is a big problem. There isn't enough EV manufacturing capacity to meet demand. So, right now, EVs are being treated by auto manufacturers as a premium product with huge markups. Tesla never did ship a $35K car, and Ford's electric F-150 is substantially more expensive than the gas version. Worse, electrics tend to come with all the useless high-end trim options. Price the Jeep Wrangler EV. I wonder if we will ever get back low-margin cars. Auto companies are getting addicted to high margins and post-purchase charges. The CEO of Stellantis is explicit about this. The end result may be BYD replacing Chevrolet or Toyota.[1] [1] https://en.byd.com/auto/ https://en.byd.com/auto/
- anovikov 4y ago
  Insufficient capacity is all that blocks EV market share from hitting 60-70% in an instant (rest will be diehard conservatives). So we will see it being the case for the next 10 years or so, naturally.
  - tpxl 4y ago
    Grid capacity is what blocks EV market share and will continue to be the blocker for the foreseeable future. A 2 person apartment where I live will consume ~400kWh of power in a typical month. Charging a 100kWh battery twice a month per person would double the power usage. We don't have the power generation, nor power delivery for that, nor will we have it for some time.
    - anovikov 4y ago
      Not really, a car serves for ~15 years, so even 100% EV market share will mean only 6% or so annual replacement rate. Plenty of time for grid to adapt.
      - tpxl 4y ago
        According to a random source (American Public Power Association), the US got about 30GW of new power from 2014 to 2021, and is projected to build another 41GW in 2022. The generation as of March 2022 was 1250GW, so about 2-3% increase per year. You'd have to add another 8.5% (12 year car replacement age, and it doubles consumption, so you need to double the total production in 12 years) on top of that and you'd have to start now, not in a couple years, when the problem becomes apparent. Edit: Average car age is < 12 in the US, not 15.

anonporridge 4y ago

I've seen Rav4 Primes selling for $20k over the $50k premium MSRP. They're not in a better place than regular EVs.

mechanical_bear 4y ago
Except you can get them for MSRP at many dealers, for example: Sunnyvale Toyota.
driverdan 4y ago
Listed or selling? Plenty of dealers are trying to get well over MSRP but only an idiot would pay that much for a RAV4 Prime.

crooked-v 4y ago

I suspect you might have been misinformed, as the Mach-E is actually one of the few current vehicles[1] that will be able to keep the $7500 tax credit for the rest of the year, before the new rules around sourcing requirements and income limits kick in on Jan 1st. [1]: https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/federal-ev-tax-credits-end-for-most-evs-plug-in-hybrids/ https://www.forbes.com/wheels/news/federal-ev-tax-credits-en...

deleted 4y ago
[deleted]

01100011 4y ago

My Bolt is coming to the end of the lease soon. We're dropping back to a single ICE vehicle because we don't drive that much. I considered: - keep the Bolt and buy it for $24k + tax. Car is barely worth that and the subsidized chargers I've been using at work are starting to fill up, causing hassles. Current CA grid insufficiency is also not encouraging. - get a new BEV or PHEV. I don't drive enough to make either of these make economic sense. I can pick up a newer, pre-owned ICE vehicle and save a ton over non-ICE and never spend anywhere close to the difference on gas. EV drivetrains are fun and I love them but I can't justify the luxury at this point.

Animats 4y ago

This is a big problem. There isn't enough EV manufacturing capacity to meet demand. So, right now, EVs are being treated by auto manufacturers as a premium product with huge markups. Tesla never did ship a $35K car, and Ford's electric F-150 is substantially more expensive than the gas version. Worse, electrics tend to come with all the useless high-end trim options. Price the Jeep Wrangler EV. I wonder if we will ever get back low-margin cars. Auto companies are getting addicted to high margins and post-purchase charges. The CEO of Stellantis is explicit about this. The end result may be BYD replacing Chevrolet or Toyota.[1] [1] https://en.byd.com/auto/ https://en.byd.com/auto/

anovikov 4y ago
Insufficient capacity is all that blocks EV market share from hitting 60-70% in an instant (rest will be diehard conservatives). So we will see it being the case for the next 10 years or so, naturally.
- tpxl 4y ago
  Grid capacity is what blocks EV market share and will continue to be the blocker for the foreseeable future. A 2 person apartment where I live will consume ~400kWh of power in a typical month. Charging a 100kWh battery twice a month per person would double the power usage. We don't have the power generation, nor power delivery for that, nor will we have it for some time.
  - anovikov 4y ago
    Not really, a car serves for ~15 years, so even 100% EV market share will mean only 6% or so annual replacement rate. Plenty of time for grid to adapt.
    - tpxl 4y ago
      According to a random source (American Public Power Association), the US got about 30GW of new power from 2014 to 2021, and is projected to build another 41GW in 2022. The generation as of March 2022 was 1250GW, so about 2-3% increase per year. You'd have to add another 8.5% (12 year car replacement age, and it doubles consumption, so you need to double the total production in 12 years) on top of that and you'd have to start now, not in a couple years, when the problem becomes apparent. Edit: Average car age is < 12 in the US, not 15.