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Given EV’s should have price parity with ICE by 2025-2027, I think its obvious that EV adoption should accelerate. Unless you are purchasing a very cheap sub-$
by guidedlight 4y ago
Given EV’s should have price parity with ICE by 2025-2027, I think its obvious that EV adoption should accelerate.
Unless you are purchasing a very cheap sub-$20k car, EV’s should become the only choice by 2030.
https://insideevs.com/news/506465/evs-price-parity-europe-2027/ https://insideevs.com/news/506465/evs-price-parity-europe-20...
- AmericanChopper 4y agoGive me a decent un-networked EV and I’ll buy it immediately. Until then I’ll keep my ICE vehicle. Which will probably be until they’re eventually banned, because I don’t think a decent un-networked EV is ever going to exist.
- josephcsible 4y agoIt's unfair to ask for an un-networked EV when basically nobody is even making un-networked ICE vehicles anymore.
- AmericanChopper 4y agoIt’s very simple to find a high quality ICE vehicle that is not substantially networked to remote services, or at least that you can easily disconnect. I brought a brand new one very recently, nobody is able to remotely control the vehicle, and the only surveillance instruments in the car are the ones I choose to carry around with me.
- elif 4y agoAny modern car can be remote controlled by plugging a device into the port used by comma.io If you're really worried about the agencies hijacking you to kill you, you're gonna need to buy vintage.
- RocketOne 4y agoNot kill. Control. Like Tesla deleting features that the original owner paid for. Like BMW charging a monthly fee to activate features already built into the car. Like UI updates that are automatic and make options worse but you can't stop the updates.
- AmericanChopper 4y agoBeing harmed is also a concern. I don’t own any other products where a software bug or compromised system has quite the same potential to physically harm me. But underlying that is the fact that there are no networked features that I personally want my car to have. So however small the risks (of both physical harm and being effected by bizarre networked car dark patterns), they are risks that I would be taking exclusively for the benefit of the manufacturer of the product for which I am supposedly the customer. As long as there is an acceptable alternative to such a product, I will always choose the alternative.
- natch 4y ago>Like Tesla deleting features that the original owner paid for. If you think this has happened, I believe you are mistaken. But I'm open to hearing evidence.
- josephcsible 4y agoWhat make and model?
- aembleton 4y agoDacia Sandero would tick that box. I don't think the Toyota Yaris is connected either.
- throwaway5959 4y agoIt’s going to be increasingly more difficult to find an un-networked vehicle period.
- rootusrootus 4y agoUn-networked? My wife's Bolt just has OnStar, which has nothing to do with it being an EV -- all GM vehicles have come with OnStar for years now. Pretty easy to disable it, too.
- hwillis 4y agoIs there something that makes the electric Volkswagens, Hyundais, Nissans, Chevys and Fords different from the conventional cars?
- kevin_thibedeau 4y agoGreed. More seriously, a natural obsolescence from dead battery packs that are BER.
- osigurdson 4y agoIs it not possible to take a Tesla off of the network by physically disconnecting something?
- cbo100 4y agoYou could just take the SIM card out and never connect it to wifi. Things like navigation can be done on-board (proven when in zero connectivity area), and playing MP3s from a USB can replace spotify. No idea what it might start complaining about long term though when it can't talk to the backend for extended periods.
- throwaway5959 4y agoThe only logical choice. Some people particularly in the Midwest and South won’t switch until they absolutely have to, TCO be damned.
- elcomet 4y agoWhen it will be cheaper, they'll all switch. Price is usually the best argument.
- jorblumesea 4y agoIt's sad how green energy has become part of the culture wars, especially given many of the states most impacted by climate change (Florida, Texas) could benefit the most. They also have vast possibilities in green power.
- thoughtstheseus 4y agoIn what way? Texas and Florida have the 2nd and 3rd most installed solar in the US by state
- pbj1968 4y agoAnd Texas generates the most wind power…
- ceejayoz 4y agoRepublican politicians notably tried to blame the ice storm outages last year on green energy. https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/16/texas-wind-turbines-frozen/ https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/16/texas-wind-turbines-...
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- rootusrootus 4y agoYou might be surprised. I have some hyper conservative folks in my extended family, and a couple of them have switched to EVs. Definitely goes against their tribal ideology, but money talks. When you drive a lot, it doesn't take much math to make you realize driving a pickup (or any regular ICE car for that matter) is an overpriced way to signal virtue. Just get a flag.
- Swizec 4y agoBuying a car right now feels like a tough decision. ICEs are on their way out, even illegal pretty soon, but EVs aren’t quite there yet especially if you live in the city and can’t charge at home. Probably best to wait ~5 years then buy an EV, if you can wait.
- RosanaAnaDana 4y agoEh, EV's are there. The older models like my 2012 leaf arent. But everything new is. The bigger issue is infrastructure. Leaving it to the market to put in charging has been a disaster. I can't relate or understand the 'city' argument (if you live in a city, get a bus pass), but for home charging, so long as you've got a commute or two of range, you can either charge at work parking or at home, mix mox.
- rootusrootus 4y agoOwning my own house, I will say that I'd happily never buy another ICE car. Charging at home is so much better than waiting in line at the gas station every week. The performance is excellent. In basically all ways that don't involve absurdly long road trips, the EV is the better choice. But price. That's the killer right now. They're popular, batteries are expensive. I may actually go back to a PHEV for my next car even after I swore I'd never own a non-EV again because I'm hooked. Because the price difference is 20 grand, and the EV will never save me 20 grand over its life compared to a good PHEV. I'm a bit miffed about the whole thing, to be honest. Prices are insane for everything. I need a raise, clearly.
- badpun 4y ago> Charging at home is so much better than waiting in line at the gas station every week. There are lines at gas stations in developed countries? I can't even remember when I last saw one.
- erik_seaberg 4y agoMany stations aren’t busy, but some people wait in line for Costco prices.
- erik_seaberg 4y agoThe price difference needs to include owning a house vs. renting an apartment.
- natch 4y agoWe charged two Teslas at an apartment for years, no problems. Using a single 110 outlet (shared, one car at a time). In the occasional road trips we also used superchargers. If it can work for two cars surely it can work for one car. You do have to choose an apartment where your outlet is close enough to the parking, obviously.
- timbit42 4y agoMake an offer to your landlord to pay for a charger installation for your parking spot. Eventually EVs will be so common that landlords will be falling over themselves to get chargers installed so they aren't pariahs.
- erik_seaberg 4y agoI don’t think renters are going to start buying EVs until a large majority of rentals have reserved charging and parking somewhere nearby. If landlords wait to see demand, it won’t appear. Replacing street parking is going to be a bigger problem.
- anonporridge 4y agoGiven the much lower fuel/power cost and reduced maintenance costs, they don't necessarily need to reach price parity.
- jnwatson 4y agoI had the misfortune of renting a Tesla right before a severe cold snap in Virginia. I was charging at 4 miles an hour at the public charging station. I’m not sure I would buy an EV in an area where it stays below freezing for weeks at a time.
- edaemon 4y agoNorway has the highest rate of EV adoption in the world. I live in Minnesota and none of my friends or neighbors have had problems with their EVs. Level 2 charging (i.e. 240V home charging) is not affected by cold temperatures unless it's well below freezing, like below 0 F.
- junofan 4y agoMost Norwegian BEV owners also own an ICE for the winter. Adoption is high due to incentives.
- fy20 4y agoMore importantly, most of the places where people live in Norway are not actually that cold. In Oslo it hasn't dropped below -20C / -4F since 2010.
- buu700 4y agoGlobal warming came in handy for once.
- noirbot 4y ago-4F is pretty cold, especially compared to temps in VA in the US. I'd be a little surprised if VA got to below 10F in the last 10 years.
- blahedo 4y agoDepends on where. Probably not in Richmond, certainly not in Virginia Beach. But up in the mountains it gets chilly. Winchester apparently averages a little over one day a year where the low dips below 0°F.
- JKCalhoun 4y agoStrikes me as odd that electrics are not cheaper than internal combustion. I guess it's the batteries, huh?
- 01100011 4y agoBatteries and lots of copper and aluminum. Steel is cheap. You also have better economy of scale in IC vehicles for now. I feel like we're dismissing other hydrocarbons too early. When I was a kid, people had propane or methane cars which were basically converted gasoline cars. Sure, not anywhere near as efficient but combined with hybrid tech for regenerative braking you likely have a more efficient car overall(nat gas is less refining energy than gasoline IIRC and we have a lot of it). You can also build them a lot cheaper since they use smaller electric motors, less coppper, less aluminum, and less lithium. Yes I know BEV zealots hate hybrids but until we have better Li supply chains we need to conserve it and get more vehicles off of pure IC drivetrains.
- erik_seaberg 4y agoI used to drive airport shuttles that ran on CNG. I think the airport wanted to lower emissions on site. Worked fine, except that the county only had two stations with CNG pumps. They kept a couple of regular vans that could stop for gasoline on longer trips.
- avtolik 4y agoPropane converted cars are still pretty popular in Eastern Europe. LPG at gas stations is 2x cheaper than gasoline in my country. The popularity comes from the lower salaries here so I don't see EVs becoming widespread in these parts in the next decade.
- coderenegade 4y agoMethanol is a perfectly good fuel that is already made at industrial scales. Switching the source of the hydrogen feedstock from natural gas to electrolysis can actually increase the efficiency of the process. Green methanol will be powering ships within the next five years, and there's no reason we couldn't use it for cars as well, considering there are methanol-powered vehicles on the road today.
- fomine3 4y agoI wish so but the forecast is wrote in early 2021. I wonder is it still true after we saw inflation, high demand and short of battery supply, and supply shortage.
- chrisco255 4y agoUnless they improve the recharge speed or dramatically improve thr power density, we're gonna have ICEs for a long time. Electric vehicles are not good in cold weather, they so far have not proven themselves to be capable of long haul towing (battery life drops off precipitously while towing), there is not enough charging ports or parking spots for hundreds of millions of cars to recharge, emergency vehicles cannot depend on EV (you can't wait for an ambulance to recharge for 45 minutes). Also, power grid constraints. California recently asked electric car owners to not charge at certain times of the day. This, in spite of the fact that electric cars are still in single digit percentages of ownership. This is unacceptable and it's very clear the grid is not ready to support it.
- sandworm101 4y ago>> Unless they improve the recharge speed or dramatically improve thr power density That may be the doomsday scenario. Imagine we had a new battery tech today that could cram 1000+miles into a car in say 5 minutes. EV sales would spike. ICEs would disappear. Then everyone would get their new EV home ... and the national electricity grid would collapse.
- dixie_land 4y agospeaking of doomsday, I can stock up on fuel with reasonable effort (storage tank, fuel stabilizer). But you can't easily build your own battery farm
- 1958325146 4y agoYou can relatively easily install solar panels/batteries, and they even pay for themselves while we await doomsday.
- sephamorr 4y agoInteresting perspective. Another view: solar panels on your roof, using your car battery for your house nighttime needs means that during doomsday your energy intensive lifestyle doesn't have to change at all.