4 ms·

What is your medical background? I am a physician and do not agree with your thesis. Linking to ultrasound websites is not really evidence of anything. There s

by _qua 4y ago

What is your medical background? I am a physician and do not agree with your thesis. Linking to ultrasound websites is not really evidence of anything. There simply isn't good evidence that "all solid tumors caught early are curable." Some cancers, like localized breast cancers and certain renal cancers, are highly curable when caught early. Some other non-solid cancers like certain pediatric leukemias are also extremely responsive to therapy and highly curable. Conversely, some solid tumors, even when caught early, have dismal prognosis due to micrometastasis and the underlying biology of the tumor. I would recommend "The Hallmarks of Cancer" for a high level overview of the current understanding of what drives cancer: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cell.2011.02.013 https://doi.org/10.1016/j.cell.2011.02.013

bagels 4y ago
Some of those devices are not decades old either, regardless of the other problems with the thesis.
echelon 4y ago
Does a physician have a globally optimal understanding? Do you actively read medical journals? Developments in biochemistry? Even amongst the best read physicians and researchers, I would bet my life that we're doing a lot of things suboptimally or have improper understanding of many diseases. I'm not trying to belittle your understanding or your credentials, which I understand to be far better than untrained laymen. The current state of medical care leaves a lot to be desired. We have a long way to go to detect and cure every disease state. If more money is spent on developing better tooling, assays, imaging, etc. we will undoubtedly improve patient outcomes.
- PragmaticPulp 4y ago
  > Does a physician have a globally optimal understanding? I’m far more inclined to trust a trained physician than a random HN commenter whose first four citations are just random ultrasound device manufacturer websites. The parent comment makes bold claims and tries to overwhelm the reader with non sequitur citations, but it’s clear they don’t actually understand the subject matter.
  - adventured 4y ago
    While I agree with your premise, how the hell do we know the parent is a trained physician? This is an anonymous forum. Without a long, elaborate history on HN or public credentials, to be of meaningful value in terms of trust (in the context we're discussing) the reply needs to bring a lot more to the conversation than a one line statement and claim of being a doctor. Maybe they are a doctor, great: they can add a lot more to the counter reply if so, information that they are in theory particularly equipped to discuss.
    - DanBC 4y ago
      > While I agree with your premise, how the hell do we know the parent is a trained physician? We don't know, but it doesn't matter. We can go to websites like the BMJ and see trained physicians and researchers saying the same thing across a range of different articles. We can go to research organisations like NICE, or Cochrane, or the UK National Screening Committee to see doctors and researchers saying the same thing. For mass screening, the harm often outweighs the benefits.
- lazyasciiart 4y ago
  A globally optimal understanding would involve far more than biochemistry and medical journals - population analysis, behavioral economics, regular economics, risk analysis, and a crystal ball would all be needed to avoid "doing a lot of things suboptimally". The fact that you haven't even mentioned those fields of study makes it clear you're not familiar with even the scope of the problem, let alone how to solve it. Hell, we could improve patient outcomes enormously by paying for everyone to receive basic dental care, today.
spaghettiToy 4y ago
paulpauper 4y ago
much of this discussion is bad, whether it's people who insist their healthy lifestyles will prevent cancer or thinking that all cancer is preventable
saiya-jin 4y ago
He has no actual clue, thats for sure. On top of all correct items you mention, some stuff is completely benign and should be left alone. Nobody will know that until operation or other, very invasive procedures are taken which have their own risks anf consequences. Especially at older age, many things killing slowly are just too slow and other items will surpass them in achieving that kill, ie prostate cancer in basically all men (according to a close friend who is swiss urology surgeon its only question of time we all males get it, but most of the time you dont know about it and it progresses super slowly). There are many things like this. That doesnt mean there isnt a room for improvement. I have some bad experiences too, but my wife is a doctor and medicine is HARD, every case properly unique. IT and stuff google et al do is trivial and deterministic by comparison. We all would like this idea that medicine can cure it all, but we are far, far from it. But some folks apparently just love reading "10 things THEY don't want you to know about XYZ" articles and actually believe them.

by _qua 4y ago

bagels 4y ago

Some of those devices are not decades old either, regardless of the other problems with the thesis.

echelon 4y ago

Does a physician have a globally optimal understanding? Do you actively read medical journals? Developments in biochemistry? Even amongst the best read physicians and researchers, I would bet my life that we're doing a lot of things suboptimally or have improper understanding of many diseases. I'm not trying to belittle your understanding or your credentials, which I understand to be far better than untrained laymen. The current state of medical care leaves a lot to be desired. We have a long way to go to detect and cure every disease state. If more money is spent on developing better tooling, assays, imaging, etc. we will undoubtedly improve patient outcomes.

PragmaticPulp 4y ago
> Does a physician have a globally optimal understanding? I’m far more inclined to trust a trained physician than a random HN commenter whose first four citations are just random ultrasound device manufacturer websites. The parent comment makes bold claims and tries to overwhelm the reader with non sequitur citations, but it’s clear they don’t actually understand the subject matter.
- adventured 4y ago
  While I agree with your premise, how the hell do we know the parent is a trained physician? This is an anonymous forum. Without a long, elaborate history on HN or public credentials, to be of meaningful value in terms of trust (in the context we're discussing) the reply needs to bring a lot more to the conversation than a one line statement and claim of being a doctor. Maybe they are a doctor, great: they can add a lot more to the counter reply if so, information that they are in theory particularly equipped to discuss.
  - DanBC 4y ago
    > While I agree with your premise, how the hell do we know the parent is a trained physician? We don't know, but it doesn't matter. We can go to websites like the BMJ and see trained physicians and researchers saying the same thing across a range of different articles. We can go to research organisations like NICE, or Cochrane, or the UK National Screening Committee to see doctors and researchers saying the same thing. For mass screening, the harm often outweighs the benefits.
lazyasciiart 4y ago
A globally optimal understanding would involve far more than biochemistry and medical journals - population analysis, behavioral economics, regular economics, risk analysis, and a crystal ball would all be needed to avoid "doing a lot of things suboptimally". The fact that you haven't even mentioned those fields of study makes it clear you're not familiar with even the scope of the problem, let alone how to solve it. Hell, we could improve patient outcomes enormously by paying for everyone to receive basic dental care, today.

spaghettiToy 4y ago

paulpauper 4y ago

much of this discussion is bad, whether it's people who insist their healthy lifestyles will prevent cancer or thinking that all cancer is preventable

saiya-jin 4y ago

He has no actual clue, thats for sure. On top of all correct items you mention, some stuff is completely benign and should be left alone. Nobody will know that until operation or other, very invasive procedures are taken which have their own risks anf consequences. Especially at older age, many things killing slowly are just too slow and other items will surpass them in achieving that kill, ie prostate cancer in basically all men (according to a close friend who is swiss urology surgeon its only question of time we all males get it, but most of the time you dont know about it and it progresses super slowly). There are many things like this. That doesnt mean there isnt a room for improvement. I have some bad experiences too, but my wife is a doctor and medicine is HARD, every case properly unique. IT and stuff google et al do is trivial and deterministic by comparison. We all would like this idea that medicine can cure it all, but we are far, far from it. But some folks apparently just love reading "10 things THEY don't want you to know about XYZ" articles and actually believe them.